Will Mercedes ever build another engine like the 617 - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

compu_85 · #16 02-20-2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

It had the self destructing vacuum pump, crackable aluminum head, serpentine belt system that is not as durable as fixed V-belts....one giant aluminum oil pan.....hydraulic lifters that can fail and cause ticking noises. I can go on.....

Ya and the 617 has failing vacuum pumps, v belts that are a pain in the butt to change and require re-tensioning and more force so the bearings wear out faster, lifters that require adjustment... I bet the cost of replacing the 603's every 200k or so is less then the cost of having the mechanical valves adjusted every 15k like the book says.

No design is perfect. The 617 is not an exception. For that matter I would argue the VW 1.8l 8 valve gasser is more reliable then a 617. Those will also go and go and go, but they tended to die of lack of oil changes. Simple, reliable belt drive non interference overhead camshaft... no pesky chain that wears out and gets sloppy with hard to get at guide rails.

I bet the emissions of my non-catalyzed 603.970 are better then a cali spec 1985 617. I highly, highly doubt a 617 could be made anywhere near clean enough for todays standards.

-J

Renntag · #17 02-20-2011, 03:03 PM

Bring back the Model T. Simple and with real floor boards.

Skid Row Joe · #18 02-20-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasinthesun

Historically the best built engine design in my book ,what would you say?The unveiling of such a motor could be a boost to Mercedes bottomline and if kept affordable a few younger buyers might be sold.Maybe a 4 and 5 cylinder options with turbo .

What is it about the 617, that makes it "historically the best built engine design in my book" to you?

pawoSD · #19 02-20-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compu_85

Ya and the 617 has failing vacuum pumps, v belts that are a pain in the butt to change and require re-tensioning and more force so the bearings wear out faster, lifters that require adjustment... I bet the cost of replacing the 603's every 200k or so is less then the cost of having the mechanical valves adjusted every 15k like the book says.

No design is perfect. The 617 is not an exception. For that matter I would argue the VW 1.8l 8 valve gasser is more reliable then a 617. Those will also go and go and go, but they tended to die of lack of oil changes. Simple, reliable belt drive non interference overhead camshaft... no pesky chain that wears out and gets sloppy with hard to get at guide rails.

I bet the emissions of my non-catalyzed 603.970 are better then a cali spec 1985 617. I highly, highly doubt a 617 could be made anywhere near clean enough for todays standards.

-J

We've never had an issue with a vacuum pump on any of our 617's....and the V-belts are easy to change. I can do all of them in probably 15-20 mins. Valve adjustment takes 35-40 mins tops and costs about $4 to do if you do it yourself.

chasinthesun · #20 02-20-2011, 05:29 PM

I Recentley had a visit from a neighbor while working on an oil change ,his grandfather who was a long time airplane mechanic had joined him .The conversation over the motor sturred up some intersting history the old man relayed about avaition.His comments were of how an over-engineered designed piece insures performance and how much an airplane depends on all parts working properly everytime, all the time.His remarks kind of sums it up for me about the 617 .

bamba · #21 02-20-2011, 05:30 PM

I think much of the love affair with the 617 revolves around the simplicity of design and repair, and also that it's almost entirely a mechanical motor. Engine evolution during the past 25 years has increasingly moved toward electronically controlled everything, and MB diesel motors are no exception. Consider how much MB has invested in diesel engine R&D since the early 80s. I highly doubt they would revert back to an all mechanical, indirect-injection diesel motor in an attempt to appeal to a very small contingent of MB enthusiasts. Don't get me wrong -- I love my 617 to death -- but I just don't see a 'throwback' motor like it becoming available once again.

OTOH, I agree with those who commented on the diverse MB models (e.g. A- & B-class) that are not imported the US. Their small, ultra-efficient DI diesel motors won't resemble a 617 in terms of a largely mechanical design, and perhaps they won't have the longevity, but I would welcome them with open arms.

One other thing about the 617 vs. 60x. The one major difference in terms of reliability and longevity, at least in my book, is the all cast-iron block + head of the 617, vs. the aluminum head of the 60x. The expansion rate of two different metals / the head gasket issues alone make them entirely different motors. There are certainly pros and cons and trade-offs between the two.

okyoureabeast · #22 02-20-2011, 05:43 PM

I'm biased, I love the 617 because it is the first engine I ever really started to break down into individual systems to repair, rebuild, and learn.

At this juncture, I wouldn't be daunted with the task of an engine or transmission swap. I've spent enough time on this site, reading the FSM, and playing with my car that such a task wouldn't be out of my reach.

It's my hobby and my car. That's why I love the 617.

Skid Row Joe · #23 02-20-2011, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasinthesun

I Recentley had a visit from a neighbor while working on an oil change ,his grandfather who was a long time airplane mechanic had joined him .The conversation over the motor sturred up some intersting history the old man relayed about avaition.His comments were of how an over-engineered designed piece insures performance and how much a plane depends on all parts working properly everytime, all the time.His remarks kind of sums it up for me about the 617 .

I don't read any particulars here in your post that would make the 617 so attractive in 2011 to anyone. Others have stated it's obvious shortcomings.

I would suggest you consider raising your sights at least to the 606. I know that I have no interest driving a 617 after owning and driving a 606 for 12 years now. I would never go back to anything older than 606 power as my primary daily-driver, BTDT.

Which diesel engined Mercedes-Benz vehicles have you owned to date? What engined Mercedes-Benz are you driving now?

chasinthesun · #24 02-20-2011, 05:59 PM

Propel yourself your way ,Ill do the same.

Skid Row Joe · #25 02-20-2011, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasinthesun

Propel yourself your way ,Ill do the same.

Which Mercedes-Benz diesel-powered engined cars have you owned?

I think none......

Fulcrum525 · #26 02-20-2011, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vahe

Would you elaborate on the above, what exactly is coming here in the fall?

Vahe

Enjoy

Report: Mercedes-Benz GLK diesel on the way
Report: Mercedes-Benz C-Class diesel coming in 2012

Skid Row Joe · #27 02-20-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babymog

I hate to state the obvious, but how would building an engine that cost too much to produce, was noisy, unable to meet emissions (dirty), inefficient, and overweight be good for Mercedes? It was replaced by the quieter, more efficient, more powerful, cleaner, lighter, and every bit as durable 601/602/603 and then the 606, ... which are good half-million mile engines also with proper maintenance.

Kind of like the 123. A great car in its day, unmistakable classic, durable, ... but the performance, mileage, handling, comfort, features, and safety are very 1970s.

A well maintained VW Tdi will last longer than the body and interior, a well maintained M104 will last 300k, there are GM 3800V6 engines running around with 200k-300k on them, ... the 61x engine was a great engine in its day but technology has moved on in the past 30years.

A circumspect analysis. Agree 110%!

Thanks, Jeff.

compu_85 · #28 02-20-2011, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

We've never had an issue with a vacuum pump on any of our 617's....and the V-belts are easy to change. I can do all of them in probably 15-20 mins. Valve adjustment takes 35-40 mins tops and costs about $4 to do if you do it yourself.

Ya and the serp belt takes 5 min to change

Lifter changes are easy if you do it yourself too.... though it looks like the mercedes ones are $20 each as opposed to the $10 VW ones.

So what I'm getting at is that one isn't better then the other, they're just different.

chasinthesun · #29 02-20-2011, 06:59 PM

Im satisfied ,very satisfied with what Ive driven.

layback40 · #30 02-20-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

I don't read any particulars here in your post that would make the 617 so attractive in 2011 to anyone. Others have stated it's obvious shortcomings.

I would suggest you consider raising your sights at least to the 606. I know that I have no interest driving a 617 after owning and driving a 606 for 12 years now. I would never go back to anything older than 606 power as my primary daily-driver, BTDT.

Which diesel engined Mercedes-Benz vehicles have you owned to date? What engined Mercedes-Benz are you driving now?

X2
Doesnt it just get you Joe when people dont put their car history in their signature.
A sign of just an inexperienced opinion I often find.