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  #16  
Old 03-25-2011, 09:21 PM
luddite by choice
 
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I never work under a car unless someone is within earshot or weld for that matter. A buddy of mine almost died from welding galvanized sheet metal, he got galvanic poisoning and passed out in a warehouse.

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  #17  
Old 03-28-2011, 09:38 AM
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In the interest of continuing the safety conversation, here is another post from the late Christian's K's Dad.... reposted from another forum.

Frankly, I like the pin type stands also.


"Jackstand suggestions...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

until I design my own sailor proof stand... of course, the chosen support point is equally important as well... take a look at these. Keep in mind, a single ratchet six ton stand killed my son, and he had two in place plus a tire/wheel assembly under the rotor on the side the stand dropped. Don't save money on safety!!!

Link: Amazon.com: jack stands: Automotive

See items 4, 7, 11, 50, (60, 63 - kinda like the bases on these and distribution of weight but need to see the steel specs), 67 and 103. Personally, I am liking the pin only stands now as human performance does not enter into the equation. You don't pin it, it doesn't work. The double safety ratchet/pin design requires human performance to put the pin in. Without it, what do you have? A ratchet stand.

Also, I was taught as an engineer that you do your calcs and multiply by seven for safety and certainty. Hence, my suggestion you look at high tonnage capacity stands.

It is a life afterall - maybe yours - put a price on it. To have my son back I'd liquidate all I have and move to a tent.

Frederick Klorczyk, Jr."
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  #18  
Old 03-29-2011, 10:13 AM
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I inherited a set of steel ramps, but I have never used them. Those ramps, along with a set of 'potenza's" homemade wood wheel supports, and a set of sturdy jack stands with safety pins are looking pretty attractive at this point. Ratchet-type jack stands had always seemed pretty safe, but the potential for some sort of accidental contact with the release lever .... and its consequences .... never occurred to me as a possibility.

Now I can't get it out of my head. Which is probably a good thing. It could happen.

For example, I had usually positioned the release lever for my convenience when I was ready to remove the stand.... not thinking of positioning it to avoid any inadvertent contact. No more.
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  #19  
Old 03-30-2011, 09:40 AM
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Link posted by Frederick Klorczyk Jr. tonight in another forum. American made. Worth a look.

https://www.grayusa.com/support_stand.asp

Another post from Frederick Klorcyzk, Jr:

"Lynne and I have driven on some of Christian's favorite roads these past weeks. We "claim" that we could better accept this if he missed the braking point, went in hot, he forgot he had winters on and the coefficient of friction was not the same as his performance tires, he missed a shift, anything... then there would be some modicum of sense. We'd have been pissed as we knew he was such a good driver and never was DUI but there was a more tangible cause such as driver error.


My description of the accident, which I reenacted last night, took all the planets and stars to align to take his life. NFW could you make that happen again. That is hard to grasp. If I had the guts (which I presently do not) I'd post the pics of the event as you could see how he protected himself to the degree to which any real mechanic was trained.


Once again, to teach yourself a lesson in safety, go out to your garage, extend your jackstand and trip the lever. Try to take a breath when it drops. You can't. Then imagine your chest as the jackstand. That is how brutal this is.


THERE IS NO SECOND CHANCE HERE GUYS. ASK CHRISTIAN. SPEND THE CASH AND GET AT LEAST A PINNED JACKSTAND IF NOT BETTER. EVEN THE PINS BOTHER ME AS WHO KNOWS WHERE THE PIN CAME FROM (CAN YOU SAY CHINA?) AND WAS IT DESIGNED, ENGINEERED, MADE AND EVEN TESTED PROPERLY BEFORE YOU TRUST YOUR LIFE TO IT. WHO KNOWS WHAT THE SHEAR STRENGTH IS UNTIL YOU DESTRUCTIVELY TEST IT IF IT EVER IS?




GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!"


Shared in the interest of safety for all. This story is all over the internet now.

Stay safe, fellas.
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  #20  
Old 03-30-2011, 05:06 PM
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I like the ramps but it can be hard to get the front wheels of RWD cars to climb them, if you have a smooth concrete floor. They want to slide along the concrete. On textured concrete or asphalt it's less of a problem. Of course, you should chock the wheels that are on the ground in both directions.

I put stands under the car as a safety even when I use ramps, just in case a ramp decides to fold up on me. (I live in an earthquake zone.) Don't forget to take the stands out from under the car before you back the car off the ramp, though...it's really embarrassing if you don't.
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  #21  
Old 03-31-2011, 02:18 PM
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Here's a trick for ramps: Try placing the ramp on heavy rubber mat/s which is long enough that the front tires are on the mat before contacting the ramp itself.
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  #22  
Old 04-03-2011, 10:21 PM
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Unfortunately it just happened again.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2014619708_apwacarrepairfatality.html
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  #23  
Old 04-04-2011, 07:36 AM
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Thank you for posting this.


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...rfatality.html


March 27, 2011 Bremerton WA.

Post this everywhere. This poor guy evidently didn't get the message, and now he never will.

Sad.

Stay safe, fellas. It has happened again.
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  #24  
Old 04-04-2011, 02:24 PM
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This was posted elsewhere.... are these available through any forum vendors?

http://www.creepex.com/Cr/Home.html



Be sure to check out the falling jack stands video. Scarey stuff.
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  #25  
Old 04-04-2011, 04:00 PM
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Location: Northwest Ohio
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Reading this topic reinforces my decision to buy a hydraulic lift. I do my work on a gravel driveway using jack stands sitting on 2x12s but the older I get, the more cautious I get. Plus it would be nicer (and faster) to raise and I like the idea of sliding around on a wheeled chair or creeper.

In researching lifts, I landed on a product called "MaxJax". It's a half-lift (48 inches or so), and is unique in that the posts are removable and the pump is on wheels so you can move everything out of the way when you are not using it. Uses 110v instead of 220v. It also has an optional attachment for motorcycles. Check it out:

http://www.maxjaxusa.com/features.html

Alot of discussion on the Garage Journal Forum:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/index.php

Near as I can tell, the best prices are from Northern Tool (about $2,000 delivered). Costco also carries them. In my case, I will have to pour a concrete pad for another $400 or so.

I was considering a fixed, full-height lift for around $1500, but I like the removability and use of 110v (since I don't have 220 in my barn).
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  #26  
Old 04-04-2011, 05:33 PM
zu! zu! is offline
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All this reinforces my belief that well, you never know the time or the day...
I use ratcheting jackstands, and have noticed that the hydraulic lifts at garages are also ratcheting stands (at least those that I've seen). With a car on it, the pressure on the ratchet is intense and I really don't see how it can be knocked loose (I try though, every time before sliding under).

Sorry it happened to that guy with the beemer...seems like he it was a freak accident, which again, reinforces my faith. Personally, I wish I had the Airjack that the W123 Expedition guy uses. Everytime I do something, its either the regular tire jack or the ramps.

As for changing oil, the W123 is high enough that I don't even need to raise the car.

Be safe folks. An ounce of prevention goes a long way....
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  #27  
Old 04-04-2011, 05:39 PM
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only way I can see ratcheting stands failing is if they are the cheap style that has a roll pin holding the ratchet tooth onto the handle, and putting it in with the handle BARELY attached to the ratchet. I suppose swinging a really large wrench or hammer into the handle could knock it out...


is this better?

yes, that is my 95TE being held up by the tow hitch with a engine hoist and supported by a stack of tires... notice I am NOT the one under the car...
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  #28  
Old 04-05-2011, 08:23 AM
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what? nobody wants to comment on my safety methods?
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #29  
Old 04-05-2011, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
only way I can see ratcheting stands failing is if they are the cheap style that has a roll pin holding the ratchet tooth onto the handle, and putting it in with the handle BARELY attached to the ratchet. I suppose swinging a really large wrench or hammer into the handle could knock it out...


is this better?

yes, that is my 95TE being held up by the tow hitch with a engine hoist and supported by a stack of tires... notice I am NOT the one under the car...
Whats the load limit on your hoist?
Any reason why it wouldnt topple out from there?
Hope you have your front wheels well chocked.
Is the drink to give courage to get under it?
What are you trying to do under there?
What is the drum supporting?
Those piles of tires are way too unstable.

Happy now you have been commented on?
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  #30  
Old 04-05-2011, 08:58 AM
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yes, thanks. MUCH better.

limit is 3 tons in the position I've got the arm in.

the wheels are DEEP into the earth, so I don't see how it could slide or topple.

chocked is good.

the drink is because my little brother has sore throat, and he was thirsty.

the driveshaft has a chainlink fence wrapped around it... like 20' of chainlink fence... really tough stuff. gotta cut it all out. didn't want to work on it with only a few inches to swing the bolt cutters in.

I shoved the drum under there to catch the car a tad more incase the lift and tires started to topple... give just a hair more time to run out from under it. also note in the upper edge of the pic, there are jack stands there... not sure what they would do if that pizza pile decided to topple...

see previous answer. I also plan to attach 10,000lb ratchet straps to the tree behind the car, and to the 3/4 ton pickup beside the car, and to the SD beside the car... I do NOT want the car moving when I'm under there!


of course I could just shove a 2x4 under it...

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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