616 rebuild options - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

subetealabici · #1 08-02-2011, 01:17 PM

Hi
I recently got a Om 616 engine from another forum member and I'm researching different rebuild options, I want to rebuild the engine and take the engine on the car and rebuild it to and make a diesel generator with some particular design features.

So now i have the engine mount in a homemade server rack/ engine mount inside my shed, the engine is almost all apart the pistons seems to be good as well as the head, the cylinders look worn but not to bad, I haven't accurate measure anything yet.

I was reading different threads in the forum and I would like to take a more DIY rebuild path not just take the engine to a shop and have it rebuild, there is different options to follow and I will appreciate any advice and help.

Re bore the cylinders to a bigger size, and put some OM617 pistons, I was reading in the Haynes manual that the OM 617 has a bigger bore 91mm and the OM 616 90.0mm.

Change the cylinder sleeves or liners and keep the same pistons with new rings.

That is like the central question, besides that many off the other parts are easy to change and no so expensive, valve guides, bearings, seals gaskets, etc.

The engine fits very well in the back seat, I will put more pictures as soon as I clean up my shed and start whit the work

Santiago

strelnik · #2 08-02-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subetealabici

Hi
I recently got a Om 616 engine from another forum member and I'm researching different rebuild options, I want to rebuild the engine and take the engine on the car and rebuild it to and make a diesel generator with some particular design features.

So now i have the engine mount in a homemade server rack/ engine mount inside my shed, the engine is almost all apart the pistons seems to be good as well as the head, the cylinders look worn but not to bad, I haven't accurate measure anything yet.

I was reading different threads in the forum and I would like to take a more DIY rebuild path not just take the engine to a shop and have it rebuild, there is different options to follow and I will appreciate any advice and help.

Re bore the cylinders to a bigger size, and put some OM617 pistons, I was reading in the Haynes manual that the OM 617 has a bigger bore 91mm and the OM 616 90.0mm.

Change the cylinder sleeves or liners and keep the same pistons with new rings.

That is like the central question, besides that many off the other parts are easy to change and no so expensive, valve guides, bearings, seals gaskets, etc.

The engine fits very well in the back seat, I will put more pictures as soon as I clean up my shed and start whit the work

Santiago

Not to burst your bubble, but the Mercedes OM 636 engine was used for 50 years as a governor-controlled generator and they are usually available in working order for about $ 300-400

I would sell you one but I live too far away to make it cost effective.

A good OM 616 can always go in a car, these would serve your purpose and would be more economical.

Consider selling the 616, buying a OM636 (some come with the generation equipment attached) and you would save money.

Just my two cents.

boneheaddoctor · #3 08-02-2011, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strelnik

Not to burst your bubble, but the Mercedes OM 636 engine was used for 50 years as a governor-controlled generator and they are usually available in working order for about $ 300-400

I would sell you one but I live too far away to make it cost effective.

A good OM 616 can always go in a car, these would serve your purpose and would be more economical.

Consider selling the 616, buying a OM636 (some come with the generation equipment attached) and you would save money.

Just my two cents.

As far as the generator end of things....I agree with strelnik. You want an engine that will maintain a constant RPM under varying loads, and that's a function of a governor. The om 616 does not have that type in the IP now.

Liners are on these engines are not a DIY project. They are press fit....not at all like a Cummins you could do at home.

leathermang · #4 08-02-2011, 03:05 PM

There are other threads about trying to drive a generator... I was wanting to drive a welder......

I do not remember this info about the 636 engine being brought up in those threads.... and it sure sounds like the better option...

Sorry BHD , sleeves are not a big problem.... several threads about them...and complete info in the FSM... how to make your own slide hammer puller, etc... one trick is to cool them right before extraction.. or insertion for that matter....

leathermang · #5 08-02-2011, 03:08 PM

It would NOT make economic sense to put the 617 turbo pistons in unless you were turbo'ing it...which would require other upgrades as well.. because the turbo pistons are WAY more expensive than the 616... what you described with new sleeves and rings...with your old pistons , if they meet the specs for rebuilding , is clearly the easy cheap ( and perfectly LEGIT) way to renew your engines bore....

Biodiesel300TD · #6 08-02-2011, 03:18 PM

Santiago, I see you are in Oregon. Are you coming to the Get Together on Saturday at Silver Falls State Park. More info here: Pac NW GTG?

Codifex Maximus · #7 08-03-2011, 02:51 AM

For a genset engine, you might also look into a Listeroid type diesel. They are so simple, reliable and speed governed that they are a third world fixture. It's said that they'll burn near anything and will probably be going long after most other engines are history.

I hear you can break one down and rebuild it in an afternoon.

subetealabici · #8 08-03-2011, 11:10 AM

Hi

On the generator side the idea is to drive a FM tube transmitter and a refrigeration unit for it, it is a very constant load and no more than 15Kva, the transmitter works 24hours and the refrigeration is always working to, I acknowledge that a 616 may be to much for it but the idea is to use it at low rpm and have a gear box or belt coupler to diver the generator, lets say from 1200rpm on the engine to 3550rpm on the generator side, at a low rpm regime that engine is very efficient, fuel wise, and still has more than enough power, it is a very redundant system.
The Listeroid engine sounds interesting to, I think the 616 is a very reliable and rebuild able engine and parts are still common for it, it also provides more than enough power to maybe add more load to the generator in the future.

On the rebuild side, the 617 piston may come from a friend here in Portland that has a 617 with a broken rod, there is always one or two 300 in the pick and pull to, I still need to measure the cylinder walls to see if they are small enough to re bore.

I will really like to go to the get together but it is father in law birthday and we are going to Kahneeta, last weekend we went to Crater Lake on the merc, that was a fun drive and the car did well in the altitude, we toke the backways on the way back a lot of hills and curves, 4 3 and 2 gear.

Santiago

subetealabici · #9 08-17-2011, 12:58 AM

Well I figure that the cylinder liners or sleeves are not that expensive and not that hard to replace with some elbow grease and Da Vinci's favorite tool the screw.

So I went to the pick and pull looking for something round to push the liners out, I look for some parts and I found a CV joint on a VW Rabbit, that is about the same size as the liner and has a grub that fits perfect inside the liner wall.
I put a threaded rod some screws washers and 2x4 and make it work, it was hard at the beginning but as the liner comes out it gets easier, I have two liners out now and I will get the other two tomorrow.

I was wondering what kind off oil is use between the liners and the block, I noticed some oil, does anybody knows what kind off oil is?, my experience rebuilding engines is limited even do I get my way around machines everyday.

The other thing I that I got some Meyle liners and they where wrapped in two bags, first one say Meyle Germany, second one Made in India, and in the liner say Meyle Germany, is not something against Indian manufacture I'm just curious about the origin off the piece as I saw some Chinese made liners for a third of the price I wonder if there is any big difference.
And old timer that I used to work with used to have a 190D and he told me that the Brazilian liners were much better made than the German ones.

I will put more stuff about it as I go making progress.

Thanks

leathermang · #10 08-17-2011, 01:11 AM

Are you trying to rebuild that engine without having a Factory Shop Manual to consult ?
The manual is very specific about everything.... and has warnings also...
You really need one....

1960mog · #11 08-17-2011, 11:27 AM

Hi
On a non turbo just get new oversize pistons and re size the cylinders.
New pistons are better then old ones.
The turbo engines are a different story.
The price of the pistons makes it worthwhile to change the sleeves and piston rings.
But it's to late for that now.
You are very brave to do this job without the right tools and machines.
I hope you know that the new sleeves are longer then the old ones, and have to be machined to the deck height of the block. Also the inside of the sleeves has to be honed to except the pistons.
Do not put any oil on the sleeves, they go in dry.
Make sure the bore in the block and the ridge on top is clean.

When you press the new sleeves in, relive the pressure on the sleeve every 1/2" ,so the sleeve can "straighten out ". If you put side way pressure on the sleeve it will crack.

A new sleeve installed.
Notice the height of the sleeve over the parting surface of the block.

Good luck with your project.

Zacharias · #12 08-17-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subetealabici

Hi

The engine fits very well in the back seat, I will put more pictures as soon as I clean up my shed and start whit the work

That is a great pic of the engine in the back seat. Bet it rides better with that extra weight.

What is that next to it? Gift wrap paper? Did our fellow forum member try to gift-wrap it for you?

subetealabici · #13 08-17-2011, 12:33 PM

I have some manuals, but I haven't fully read then, I will print out a copy and do some reading before continuing.
Those pictures are cool, I know once installed the sleeves need to be honed on the top and the bore needs to be accommodate to the piston size, I'm making some tools for that as I want to do it my self and as I also have another engine that I will be fixing after this one.
The wrap is a vinyl cloth that I have in case the the engine was dripping oil or something to put over the plywood.
The ride with the engine on the back was really good.

Thanks

DeliveryValve · #14 08-17-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subetealabici

....I look for some parts and I found a CV joint on a VW Rabbit, that is about the same size as the liner and has a grub that fits perfect inside the liner wall......

Great tip! Thanks!

Diesel911 · #15 08-18-2011, 12:49 AM

Comment on Liners.
If Liners are not handled properly; meaning stored up and down like you would sit a Drinking Glass on a table they are subject to getting distorted.

Picture several hundred pounds of Liners stacked on their sides and on top of each other on a Pallet and getting squashed.

Even the thicker and heavier Truck type Wet Cylinder Liners get distorted sometimes if the are stored wrong and enough weight is piled onto them.