Checking IP timing. Small stream at 24BTC.

[bipolardave]

1. Degree wheel at 24 BTD, cam lobes facing up.
2. Vacuum hose disconnected at rear of IP and throttle wired fully open.
3. Injection spring/valve removed and drip tube installed on the front fitting (#1?).
4. Cam pedestal mark and timing chain mark corresponded to TDC on degree wheel.

When I operate the primer pump, there's initially a small trickle that will last about 30 seconds until fast falling droplets form, several per second. It will eventually drip slower until there's no pressure 90 seconds -2 minutes later.

I assume that my set up is correct?

What I'm looking for is a steady 1 drop per second as soon as I start pumping, no stream?

My next moves are to mark the location of the IP, loosen the 3-4 nuts, and pull the IP away from the block to retard the timing?

Based on my description, about how far out is the timing? Is it too much to be corrected by shifting the IP or should I consider a new timing chain?

BTW, car is hard to start in slow idle, whitish fuel smelling smoke at cold idle, and lots of soot when I put the spur to her. New filters, valve adjustment, and diesel purge didn't help. Injectors newish and glow plugs are good.

[tangofox007]

Originally Posted by bipolardave

My next moves are to mark the location of the IP, loosen the 3-4 nuts, and pull the IP away from the block to retard the timing?

Odds are that you are retarded now, and need to move in the advance direction. To find out for sure, rotate the crankshaft until you get the drip, then observe the crank angle.

Originally Posted by bipolardave

Based on my description, about how far out is the timing? Is it too much to be corrected by shifting the IP or should I consider a new timing chain?

The injection timing (not to be confused with valve timimg) can always be set relative to the crankshaft by adjusting the pump.

[bipolardave]

Originally Posted by tangofox007

Odds are that you are retarded now...

I get that a lot.

Thanks!

[Diesel911]

Originally Posted by bipolardave

1. Degree wheel at 24 BTD, cam lobes facing up.
2. Vacuum hose disconnected at rear of IP and throttle wired fully open.
3. Injection spring/valve removed and drip tube installed on the front fitting (#1?).
4. Cam pedestal mark and timing chain mark corresponded to TDC on degree wheel.

When I operate the primer pump, there's initially a small trickle that will last about 30 seconds until fast falling droplets form, several per second. It will eventually drip slower until there's no pressure 90 seconds -2 minutes later.

I assume that my set up is correct?

What I'm looking for is a steady 1 drop per second as soon as I start pumping, no stream?

My next moves are to mark the location of the IP, loosen the 3-4 nuts, and pull the IP away from the block to retard the timing?

Based on my description, about how far out is the timing? Is it too much to be corrected by shifting the IP or should I consider a new timing chain?

BTW, car is hard to start in slow idle, whitish fuel smelling smoke at cold idle, and lots of soot when I put the spur to her. New filters, valve adjustment, and diesel purge didn't help. Injectors newish and glow plugs are good.

When the Engine was new the Camshaft Timing Marks when lined up should result in TDC (OT) on the Degree Wheel.

However, as the Timing Chain Stretches and Timing Gears were you should see some late/retarded degree readings.

At about 198k I had 2.5 degrees after TDC when the Camshaft Gear and Bearing Tower marks were lined up. Indicating about 2.5 degrees of late/retarded Camshaft Timing.

[leathermang]

Check Brotherton's post listed in my signature...

[layback40]

Originally Posted by bipolardave

I get that a lot.

Thanks!

Hey dave,
It helps plenty on here if you can laugh at your self !!!
Tango is right about the IP timing being a little retarded ~ NOT YOU !!!
You could try just advancing it a couple of degrees & see the improvement. It will start to run like a dog & get hot if you advance too much.

[bipolardave]

Thanks, gang.

I'd read about the chain elgonation. I think it's caused many angry keystrokes. I only mentioned the marks as a reference.

I'm having a heck of a time with that last IP bolt. I've gotten the two on the front and the one at the rear bracket. However, I can't for the life of me find the one beneath the IP, I'm assuming front.

I'm using this DIY as reference: http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM615OM616InjPumpTiming

It's listed as the 3rd bolt. On my W115, the oil canister or the frame seem to be in the way.

[bipolardave]

Some success.

I'm not able to get a 90 degree wrench on the bottom nut, although I can feel it.

If I gently use a crowbar, I can pivot the IP towards the engine and get my 1 drop per second. However, the IP won't stay when I release the crow bar and pivots away each time.

I found the top two IP nuts fairly loose. The nut at the rear bracket was tight. I'm thinking someone has played with it before and couldn't get the front ones tight enough and they cranked on the rear to make up for it.

My gameplan is to have the wife hold the crowbar in place while I crank on the rear and see if it holds. I'm unable to get a wrench on the driver's side, top IP nut because the fuel lines are in the way. I'll have to remove those to tighten it. I might have to remove the first glow plug as well because the inner top IP nut is in a tight place, too. Hopefully the timing will still be on when I put it all back together, otherwise I'll need to rinse and repeat as necessary.

[tangofox007]

Originally Posted by bipolardave

If I gently use a crowbar, I can pivot the IP towards the engine and get my 1 drop per second. However, the IP won't stay when I release the crow bar and pivots away each time.

Removing the injector hard lines will make that process a lot easier. And probably a bit more accurate.

[bipolardave]

Originally Posted by tangofox007

Removing the injector hard lines will make that process a lot easier. And probably a bit more accurate.

The front two are removed completely and the rear two removed at the injector. I should have mentioned that...

Thanks, though.

[bipolardave]

It's official, I'm as sharp as my timing is advanced.

Even though I loosened the fuel injector lines, one lodged onto the threads of the injectors somehow. Popping them free allows me to manipulate the IP without any problems.

Hopefully I'll be on a smoke free test drive in a few hours.