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  #61  
Old 09-27-2011, 11:06 PM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,832
oh yeah. vacuum pump, timing drive gear, IP, spring tensioner, banana bars, and anything else in the area...

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #62  
Old 09-29-2011, 02:22 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,537
Chain removed.

Took a look at the stuck chain tonight. It was real bad as it was jammed and looped between the crank shaft and the sump pump. We cut the sump pump chain, drop the pump, undo the first bracket that hold the crank before we can remove the chain.

1) This is what I observed. Quite a bit of plastic stuff came out but no metal bits. What part is plastic-ish inside? The guide?

2) The sump pump chain is cut. Can we get a new one and crimp it back like the timing chain?

3) There is a metal pin across the opening, next to the crank. It is bent. What is it and how to replace or straighten it?

4) It looks like a bit of a mess and may be beyond us to put it back together. We will see. Normally, what new parts are needed to be R&R to put the chain back on?

Your help is appreciated.
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Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #63  
Old 09-29-2011, 10:17 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 348
The sump chain/oil pump chain has no master link, it comes as a complete loop.
To install it you have to remove the upper oil pan and the aluminum part that remains on the block to holds the front crank seal in place.
The metal pin is probably one of the pins that hold the plastic chain guides in place. It has a 6mm thread in it, so it can be removed with a slide hammer or a pin puller.
Well, you need at least both chains, 2 lower chain reals for the timing chain, the chain real for the oil pump chain (recommended), new pins and a front crank seal with spacer.
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76 240 D. Bought in 1998 for $25.
85 300D. Got it for free with a bad engine. ( Sold )
60 Unimog 404. What was left of it, was given to me. Now powerd by 617A.
88 560 SEL. Bought without engine and trans. Now powerd by 617A.
67 250 SE. Cuope. For resto or sale.
64 220SE. For resto.
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  #64  
Old 09-29-2011, 01:24 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,537
What are our options?

1) We have a head. Shall we forge ahead and replace the chain(s), tensioner and put everything back together. - money spent $50 and labor of love so far. It is a bit messy inside the timing chain slot. Possibly could be done with my and this forum's help. It is a big undertaking and needs a lot of patience.

2) Pull the engine and drop in another one? Will be done by an Indy for sure. What kind of labor costs we are talking about?

3) Junk the car?

Is it realistic to fix a car with a timing chain snapped while running? Has anyone done it successfully? He does not want to sink too much money into it as he is not very mechanically minded. Any advice?
__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #65  
Old 09-29-2011, 02:06 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 348
I don't know what a shop will charge to replace the engine, but if should not be a problem to fix it, just a lot of work.
OK, you have the head of all ready.
Did you confirm that the new head you have is a turbo head?
Did you take the upper/aluminum oil pan of too?
Did the oil pump, oil pan and the first main bearing cap survive the accident?

If yes, take the vacuum pump of next to check for damage. I have seen the shaft that drives the IP bend after a timing chain snap.
__________________

76 240 D. Bought in 1998 for $25.
85 300D. Got it for free with a bad engine. ( Sold )
60 Unimog 404. What was left of it, was given to me. Now powerd by 617A.
88 560 SEL. Bought without engine and trans. Now powerd by 617A.
67 250 SE. Cuope. For resto or sale.
64 220SE. For resto.
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  #66  
Old 09-29-2011, 02:44 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,537
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1960mog View Post
Did you confirm that the new head you have is a turbo head?
We think so but not 100% sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1960mog View Post
Did you take the upper/aluminum oil pan of too?
How? Not sure where or what it is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1960mog View Post
Did the oil pump, oil pan and the first main bearing cap survive the accident?
I think so. Nothing is broken. We removed the first main bearing cap to unjam the chain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1960mog View Post
If yes, take the vacuum pump of next to check for damage. I have seen the shaft that drives the IP bend after a timing chain snap.
Have not taken the VP off yet to assess damage.

The prognosis does not look good so far so be patience with our questions.
__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #67  
Old 09-29-2011, 04:38 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out in the Boonies of Hot, Dry, Dusty, Windy Nevada
Posts: 9,649
quote: {Is it realistic to fix a car with a timing chain snapped while running? Has anyone done it successfully? He does not want to sink too much money into it as he is not very mechanically minded. Any advice?}

When my chain broke, I replaced the engine so it can be done successfully.
To remove the upper pan, the engine will have to be removed. really isn`t all that difficult to do.
I have pulled mine 3 times in the drive way.

You will need some basic tools, a engine hoist and engine stand.
It would be cheaper to fix this engine or replace with a different used one, than buying a another car.

Charlie
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there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works
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  #68  
Old 10-17-2011, 01:17 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,537
Update.

Swapped an engine from a PNP. The junk car had the driver's fender crushed and frame bent so we took a chance on the engine. A shady mechanic swapped out the engine and it is back on the road. Thanks for everybody's advice.
__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.
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  #69  
Old 10-17-2011, 01:31 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Middle TN
Posts: 4,154
If we trashed these cars every time they needed something as simple as a transmission or engine, we would trash them all. Is it worth it to fix them? Almost never if you calculate repair costand value of running car. Almost always if you like driving them, have some wrenches, time and don't run to the shop every time there is a little hiccup.
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85SD 240K & stopped counting painted, putting bac together. 84SD 180,000. sold to a neighbor and member here but I forget his handle. The 84 is much improved from when I had it. 85TD beginning to repair to DD status. Lots of stuff to do.
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  #70  
Old 10-17-2011, 02:27 PM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkman View Post
If we trashed these cars every time they needed something as simple as a transmission or engine, we would trash them all. Is it worth it to fix them? Almost never if you calculate repair costand value of running car. Almost always if you like driving them, have some wrenches, time and don't run to the shop every time there is a little hiccup.
excellent reply!
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #71  
Old 10-18-2011, 11:58 AM
Zacharias's Avatar
Not so amused
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: West Quebec
Posts: 4,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkman View Post
Almost never if you calculate repair costand value of running car.
I know what you mean and we fundamentally are on the same page on the philosophy.

However, I don't think the repair cost calculation idea is as valid as it was five or ten years ago.

While shop charges always add up, at least our cars come in bite-sized components, parts-wise.

Some of the repair costs on the new cars are very high (and are only now becoming apparent as the cars age), even on domestics. This is often due to the fact you can't replace small components anymore, you have to replace a "system".

One good example is the cost of replacing ball joints that are integral to suspension arms -- some cars have retrofit kits where you can buy an aftermarket arm with replacable ball joints. Many don't.

You can buy a decent w123 300d for the price of a complete rebuild of the front end on some Chrysler products.

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Mac
2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
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