om 616 Injection Pump Timing - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stretch · #46 11-03-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr2501

Machine numbers:616 934 10 119 367 ( made by hand)
and on motor body 616 011 28 01 (this is same for both motors)

Bugger this isn't helping - I've not managed to get very far with these numbers...

The bottom number is (obviously?) the block casting number - so that doesn't say whether you've got the earlier engine or not.

Which engine does the one in your car look like?

1)

or

2)

Sorry for the images - all I could find in a hurry on google...

pr2501 · #47 11-03-2011, 07:08 PM

Do not worry about it i have took valve cover off . And in front of camper i may clear see when 4th cylinder is in balance.

Now to clear about IP:
The IP stops it rotation just in signed points. I don't know but its i presume because of some spring or...
So have also attached the IP scheme. And red point is where missing tooth is for fitting on motor. So is this picture correct too?

And can IP without lubrication fit on ?

pr2501 · #48 11-03-2011, 07:18 PM

I have saw now Yours last post. I have camper 307 d. And the difference between motor was only in IP and air intake system. The previous motor with newer IP had not air intake regulation. I believe so. Or,..., i could see any other difference.

Stretch · #49 11-04-2011, 03:22 AM

Your picture of the IP looks good - you line up the mark on the body with the missing tooth on the shaft.

As for which IP you should use? I don't know! You are confusing the heck out of me - I can't work out which engine you've got in your truck.

Can you please take some pictures of the engine you have currently installed in your truck?

The problem could be this:-

1) You've got an IP that needs to have an oil supply from the engine but the parts in the engine are not compatible (intermediate shaft will be wrong)

OR

2) You've got an IP with its own oil system that needs to have certain ancillaries (throttle valve assembly for example) so that it will work properly

You need to use the correct IP for the correct engine OR you need to modify the engine for the "wrong" IP.

Stretch · #50 11-04-2011, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr2501

Do not worry about it i have took valve cover off . And in front of camper i may clear see when 4th cylinder is in balance.

...

Sorry I don't understand this - what do you mean?

The cylinder at the front of the car / truck / engine is number 1...

...number 4 is at the back of the engine next to the flywheel and the gearbox - for the purpose of this exercise it is of no importance.

pr2501 · #51 11-04-2011, 07:22 AM

We say that cylinder is in balance when piston is in TDC and output valve is closing and
input valve is opening. If you move motor shaft around TDC for some degrees forward and then backward valves are going up and down as if something weighed.

So when 4 cylinder is in "balance". The first cylinder goes in TDC from state of compression to expansion-explosion. And its here where we are setting 24* BTDC.
IP has to began injection 24* before piston in compression reaches TDC.

Correct?

When i stay in front of motor of my truck i can not see how valves on first cylinder are acting, so i observe the 4. cylinder

pr2501 · #52 11-04-2011, 07:23 AM

you line up the mark on the body with the missing tooth on the shaft.

Can i have picture of this mark?

pr2501 · #53 11-04-2011, 07:25 AM

I will send pictures in afternoon when i will get home.

pr2501 · #54 11-04-2011, 07:37 AM

Before my action
Original motor:
616.939
WDB60236710753684 (from the documents of truck)
IP PES4M5SC320RS107-1

Second/other motor:
(number on the motor( no documents)) :616 934 10 119 367
IP PES4M55C320RS60

Actual machine and IP on the trucks:
616 934 10 119 367
IP PES4M5SC320RS107-1

I have took IP from original motor and put it on second motor, because i was not satisfied how engine was acting.
But if You find out that it could not be done without modification i will return it back as it was. And i will look for good 300D motor. Now i have 240D.

Stretch · #55 11-04-2011, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr2501

We say that cylinder is in balance when piston is in TDC and output valve is closing and
input valve is opening. If you move motor shaft around TDC for some degrees forward and then backward valves are going up and down as if something weighed.

So when 4 cylinder is in "balance". The first cylinder goes in TDC from state of compression to expansion-explosion. And its here where we are setting 24* BTDC.
IP has to began injection 24* before piston in compression reaches TDC.

Correct?

When i stay in front of motor of my truck i can not see how valves on first cylinder are acting, so i observe the 4. cylinder

Ah ha! Now I get you.

The firing sequence on the OM616 is indeed 1 - 3 - 4 - 2

so cylinder 4 should be behaving more or less as you say - just make sure you know which valve is the exhaust and which is the inlet!

(To be clear from the front of the engine =>

Cylinder # 1 => 1st valve = exhaust ; 2nd valve = Inlet

Cylinder # 2 => 3rd valve = Inlet ; 4th valve = exhaust

Cylinder # 3 => 5th valve = exhaust ; 6th valve = inlet

Cylinder # 4 => 7th valve = inlet ; 8th valve = exhaust)

###########

WARNING (For others as well as you!)

###########

Don't turn these engines "backwards" the timing chains can snag - and you might break something.

If you are turning the engine by hand - always turn the engine from the crankshaft => 27mm socket. When you are looking at the front of the engine you should ONLY turn the crankshaft clockwise.

Don't turn the engine at the camshaft cog.

Stretch · #56 11-04-2011, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr2501

Before my action
Original motor:
616.939
WDB60236710753684 (from the documents of truck)
IP PES4M5SC320RS107-1

Second/other motor:
(number on the motor( no documents)) :616 934 10 119 367
IP PES4M55C320RS60

Actual machine and IP on the trucks:
616 934 10 119 367
IP PES4M5SC320RS107-1

I have took IP from original motor and put it on second motor, because i was not satisfied how engine was acting.
But if You find out that it could not be done without modification i will return it back as it was. And i will look for good 300D motor. Now i have 240D.

I can't find any information on when the OM616.934 was introduced.

I can't find to which vehicle it was fitted.

Can anyone else help?

With these numbers I am unable at this time to tell you for sure (100% certain) if the engine and IP are compatible.

If we assume the 616 934 10 119 367engine was originally fitted with the IP PES4M55C320RS60 IP then you can not "just" bolt on the newer IP (PES4M5SC320RS107-1) because there will be no oil supply coming from the engine. The newer IP will seize.

I can, however, expand on how you could fit the newer IP to the older engine but at this stage I'm going to wait until we can confirm my suspicions. There's no point going down that road just yet.

pr2501 · #57 11-04-2011, 01:27 PM

The difference is i air in take.

Stretch · #58 11-04-2011, 02:04 PM

From your pictures it looks to me like you've got the older engine so you need to use the older (PES4M55C320RS60) IP.

That's the quickest solution.

Why did you remove it in the first place?

pr2501 · #59 11-05-2011, 02:59 AM

Because IP was connected to air supply (second picture). Adding gas the pump also opened on the air . And I suspected that this was not in tune , because the vehicle pulls at start the then no longer accelerate.

I will try today to put old IP back again.

Stretch · #60 11-05-2011, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pr2501

Because IP was connected to air supply (second picture). Adding gas the pump also opened on the air . And I suspected that this was not in tune , because the vehicle pulls at start the then no longer accelerate.

I will try today to put old IP back again.

We are now getting close to the limit of my knowledge - as I don't have this early set up on my car - but that sounds like a linkage adjustment problem to me.

Let us know how you get on though.