In June 2011, I had the clutch pedal drop to the floor. I took the car to United Auto Repair on East 83rd St., NYC, and they replaced the master and slave (close to $500 p&l). I had to take it back immediately after for them to bleed the system correctly since I was getting a grind going into reverse. January of this year, the pedal went soft and I took it back to them. They replaced the master cylinder pro bono. A few months later, I'm again getting a grind going into reverse and nasty shifting in general. Pumping the clutch pedal a few times generally gets rid of the problem for a while. I've had it back to them to re-bleed the system and adjust free play -- to no avail.

I'm not visibly losing any clutch fluid, so I don't think it's a leak unless it's very small. What should be the next step in troubleshooting this irritating thing?

I feel like I've given them ample opportunity to fix this correctly, and I'm ready to try something else.

It does sound like an air issue if after a few pumps on the clutch pedal the symptoms go away.

Have you tried to bleed the system yourself? If a job's got to be done properly you've got to do it yourself!

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Haven't yet. What is the best way to bleed it (OK, this question may start a holy war). I've heard that black magic and voodoo were involved in the process:
(1) From the slave cylinder "up" by connecting a hose to a brake bleeder and pumping the brake?
(2) From the slave cylinder "up" using a pressure bleeder?
(3) From the master "down" using a pressure bleeder on the reservoir cap?
(4) From the master "down" using a speed bleeder on the clutch slave nipp?

Also, should I remove all connections and teflon tape them to preclude air entering the system afterward?
Should I replace the hard-line between the master and slave to be safe -- maybe a pin hole leak is sucking air in there?

the symptom of curing the problem by pumping up the pedal also is indicative of an internal leak in the clutch master.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Which was supposedly "replaced" by the clowns at the shop less than 3 months ago. Do you think that I'd lose two masters in a year's time?!?

Really tempted to tear everything out (master, slave, and connecting hose), start from scratch, bleed the #### out of the system and hope for the best.

PS - where can I obtain a new clutch line? I can't find any on the usual parts sites online.

Spudrun, you do know that the reservoir on the firewall serves both clutch and brake, but the clutch portion is the very back part and it is behind a divider in the reservoir. When filling make sure that the rear portion for the clutch has it's part filled or you will be pumping air. In other words, with the clutch it is very important to fill the reservoir to the very top.

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Junqueyardjim
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis



1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!

It does make me wonder too. Always ask for your old parts when getting things fixed.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Always "from the bottom up" option (5) is now my new favorite way. The pump oil can, forget the pressure bleeder. The brake slave is fine but with the oil can you only have one hose to attach. You better learn to do this yourself, i think those guys dont know what they are doing.
I doubt you need a new line.

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

^^^

The owner of the shop actually seems like a decent guy and really did try to be helpful -- I just don't think that he's seen any manual 240d's nor knows what to do with that particular can of hydraulic worms.

To be clear, there was a charge for the initial work, but not a dime for any of the follow-ups, so I don't think he's deliberately trying to play me. He seems as flabbergasted as I am with the stupid thing.

spdrun,
Welcome to the hair-pulling club of MB clutch bleeding. With help from many posts here, I've probably got 15 hours invested in club membership dues.

Sounds like they actually got it to bleed right for at least a period of time, so air is getting in somewhere. Getting air in is unfortunately a leak somewhere in the circuit (slave, master, hardline between them, or maybe the soft line from the reservoir). Take a quick look under your driver's kick panel (you may not need to remove it to see) to check that your master is actually new AND dry everywhere. Then climb under the passenger side...actually, you can probably see it from the engine bay, and find the slave cylinder on the side of the tranny. There is a hardline that crosses over the top of the tranny, with a few connections that could probably go bad. BGKast had that happen to him, see link below.

83' 240D clutch just went out! slave cylinder?

My nightmare was I couldn't bleed the system, from above, from below, unless I backed out bolts on the the master and the slave several turns. Master was a crappy local part. Slave I actually bought here. Of course the slave failed 200 miles after the new master went in (you've already done the smart thing and replaced both at once) I must have soaked a quart of brake fluid into my clothes, my face and my driveway that winter...Good luck, ask questions.

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05 E320 CDI
99 SL500
02 530i

82 240D SOLD
83 240D Euro 4spd SOLD
86 300D Euro Auto SOLD

OK, it's leaking from the base of slave cylinder. This is actually a good thing, since I know where the leak is coming from. Really hope that the replacement part that he installs will do better

Its always good to to pin point the problem, it was leaking underneath the car then?

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Here is a You Tube video on what Stevo mentioned about using a oil can and bleeding from the bottom up. this is a very good demonstration oh how to do it.

BMW, VW, Porsche Clutch Bleeding - YouTube



Charlie

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there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Thats a good video, thanks


A while back someone posted how they used a grease gun instead of a pump can, which might be the way to go except it takes two hands. Its hard to find a decent pump can, seems most of what you see now is cheap junk. The first one I tried from HF leaked like crazy. This way sure beats dealing with two different size bleed nipples and tiny hose clamps.

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

For a car that is so otherwise dirt simple, this is a vexing problem.

Lately my daily drivers have been old VW diesels with foolproof manual cable clutches. I keep a spare in the trunk. If it breaks, ya don't need any tools and it's even hard to get dirty.

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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??)