From Envirosafe: If desired, pull a vacuum to check for leaks. On small AC systems like most passenger motor vehicles - COMPLETELY RELEASE VACUUM BEFORE CHARGING. Unlike freon, ENVIRO-SAFE does not become caustic if moisture is present. Charging under a vacuum on small AC systems may result in an overcharge. Any overcharge may cause loss of cooling efficiency. On dual air systems (some SUVs and vans) and the larger systems found in diesel pusher RVs and Buses should be CHARGED UNDER VACUUM using ENVIRO-SAFE R-134a

When I charged up my cars with the ES stuff I didnt pull any vacuum...

I just plugged in the gauges, started the car, tripped the fans and started filling until the gauges were at pleasing numbers.

I think your low side number is a bit high.. did you measure this number at idle or at high idle (1500rpm)?

With my 190E, I get temps in the low 30s at the vent. My only current complaint is that I lose a considerable amount of cooling performance at a normal idle.

But I'm not sure if thats caused by the refridgerent or the condition of my current system or just an inherent design flaw..

__________________
Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

(4/11/2020: Hi Everyone! I am still taking orders and replying to emails/PMs/etc, I appreciate your patience in these crazy times. Stay safe and healthy!)


82 300SD 145k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k

If it only held 2 cans and your low side is at 45, my concern was too much oil in the system. But, pulling a vacuum will allow more refrigerant in the system. Also, what is your idling at? If you have a very low idle, your pressures will be higher. Just something else to think about. The ES-12A has been in my 240D for many years. After delivering my coupe to its new owner in NC, we drove home in 90+ weather for 4 hours, blowing at 37-38 with the blower on 2 out 3 on the speed setting. It was comfortable. Keep in mind, tinting the windows makes a HUGE difference. My car has MB Tex everywhere, and vinyl door panels...etc. All the plastic get very hot if left in the sun, and builds up alot of heat even driving down the road with the AC on. My 350SDL is tinted, and it stays VERY cool in the car with the vent temps only getting to 48 or so.

__________________
1987 300SDL #1, 1987 300SDL #2, 1980 240D, 1982 300SD, 1994 S350, 1990 350SDL, 1991 350SD, 1985 300D, 2005 E320CDI

Gone, but not forgotten: 1981 300SD, 1982 300SD, 1987 300SDL, 1983 300TD, 1980 300CD, 1981 300SD #2, 1987 300D, 1987 300TDT, 1980 300D

Readings were taken at normal idle around 750 rpms. So if my low side is 45 and I'm shooting for 35 what does it indicate and how do I get it down? I think he put in 8 oz. of pag oil, would that be too much? Also if there is too much oil, can the oil be removed with vacuum or does it need to be flushed again?

James, there are tools available from the auto a/c supply houses that allow you to change the schrader valve in a charged system.

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

At 88 ambient temperature, I'm showing 64 psi low side and 260 psi high side. I'm bringing it back tomorrow morning. Maybe I show try having him vacuuming the system and recharge at a -30 vacuum rather than 0 vacuum??

Thats high for sure! ES-12 is supposed to have similar values are R12 (less 15 psi for the high side)

So what you should be seeing at 88F ambients:

20-24 Psi Low Side
165-215 Psi High Side

You are probably over charged. Either too much ES-12 or too much oil or somthing in the system.

__________________
Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

(4/11/2020: Hi Everyone! I am still taking orders and replying to emails/PMs/etc, I appreciate your patience in these crazy times. Stay safe and healthy!)


82 300SD 145k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k

With 12 oz. of ES-12, it should not be overcharged with refrigerant. What is confusing me it Envirosafe recommending charging at 0 vacuum pressure. Would that lead to an overcharged system and higher pressures on a hot installation day? Presumably it will have air in the system at 0 pressure before charging. So hot and so frustrating after you spend good money, arrggghhh! If they don't have a solution in mind, I'm going to ask them to evacuate and recharge at -30 vacuum.

You could try contacting Envirosafe:
Check out this page...
How efficient is ENVIRO-SAFE

My 190E was originally just charged with Freeze12, it eventually leaked out enough that the compressor would not engage. So all I did was open up a can into the a/c system until the gauge pressures were satisfactory. I didnt measure the weight that went in...

Not to muddy the waters anymore but I came across this stuff on the Enviro-Safe website:
http://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/details.asp?id=152&t=air-enhancer&Trying=ON

It sounds interestesting but I've not seen much about it on forums and such.

__________________
Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

(4/11/2020: Hi Everyone! I am still taking orders and replying to emails/PMs/etc, I appreciate your patience in these crazy times. Stay safe and healthy!)


82 300SD 145k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k

Thank JamesDean. I spoke to the company and the first tech said I had to drive it for a week or so to work the ES and the oil through the system, I had only driven it like 10 miles or so. A 2nd tech who had been there a long time said that it acted like it was overcharged with 88 ambient, 64 low side, 260 high side. When I explained that the shop only put in 2 cans totaling 12oz in the W123 system requiring 2.33 cans, he didn't know the answer and is going to confer with another tech and call me in the morning. He says that that they recommend charging with 0 vacuum because a little humidity is ok with ES and that charging with a vacuum would call for more ES and could lead to overcharging? Anyways, I'm going to drive it for a few days to see if it gets better before bringing it back to the shop.

__________________
85 300CD Signal Red/Tan sold
83 300D Manganese Brown 109K
97 E420 Midnight Blue 197K sold
98 BMW 328i Vert White 100K, sold
95 BMW 525i White 125K, sold
93 BMW 525iT Red 193K, sold
95 E320 Green Wagon 125K, sold
94 E320 White 127K, sold
85 300SD 156K Grey (Annie), sold
84 300D Lapis Blue 170K (Judy), sold
99 ML 320 Black (lease), 1998 C230 White (lease)
00 Honda S2000 Red (lease)
86 Mercedes 300E (sold)
84 Porsche 911 Red (sold), 1965 Porsche 911 White (sold)

I have to really wonder how it is possible to not vacuum and still be able to put any refridgerant in without removing the air first. Air will not do your system any good, it is not a refridgerant, and unless you pull a vacuum it will be in there.

As far as putting too much, weigh it on a digital scale as you put it in, stop when the correct weight is in. unless you are real good at a/c putting it in without weighing it can get you in trouble. I am not an expert by any means but have learned it really is something that should be done by the book, without short cuts.

__________________
1977 240D turbo

Yeah, I'm thinking that charging without a vacuum doesn't make sense. Especially when the work is done when it's 90 degrees and humid out the air that you let in to create 0 vacuum is dense and humid anyways.

Does anyone know the guidelines of how much PAG oil to put in a new R4 compressor? The shop put in 8 oz. I talked to Envirosafe and they said one possibility is that there is too much oil in the system. Anybody?

Did they flush the old oil out? If not and then they put 8 ozs in it probably does have too much oil in. 8 ozs is what most people put in after a complete flush of the system. Some even put less in.

__________________
2009 ML320 Bluetec
1985 300CD
1981 300TD

Past Mercedes
1979 300TD
1982 300TD
2000 E320 4Matic Wagon
1998 E430
1984 300SD
1980 300SD

Yes, they flushed out all the old oil. Took it back to the shop this morning when the ambient was 79 degrees. The low side showed 42 psi. The mechanic said I can't expect the A/C to perform well until I complete the system and get the A/C temp switch in so that the aux fan will kick in with the higher temps we have been having. I finally got the A/C temperature switch ($58 wholesale, no tax at the dealer) so we'll see if it operates better as it has been unusually hot. Today it suppose to be 95 here in CT today. Envirosafe called me back this morning. The 3rd tech tells me that the R4 compressor should get 4 oz. of oil after flushing. WTH? He also suggest that I switch to the industrial strength ES (which is charged with vacuum) because the 300D needs all the help it can get. My indy charged the regular ES with 0 vacuum. I'm going to give it a few days of running and reevaluate.

__________________
85 300CD Signal Red/Tan sold
83 300D Manganese Brown 109K
97 E420 Midnight Blue 197K sold
98 BMW 328i Vert White 100K, sold
95 BMW 525i White 125K, sold
93 BMW 525iT Red 193K, sold
95 E320 Green Wagon 125K, sold
94 E320 White 127K, sold
85 300SD 156K Grey (Annie), sold
84 300D Lapis Blue 170K (Judy), sold
99 ML 320 Black (lease), 1998 C230 White (lease)
00 Honda S2000 Red (lease)
86 Mercedes 300E (sold)
84 Porsche 911 Red (sold), 1965 Porsche 911 White (sold)