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  #16  
Old 12-31-2013, 11:29 PM
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Brake Booster

I recently had the same problem and thought it was the rubber brake lines or master cylinder leaking and it was into the brake booster which was half full of brake fluid. Replaced both and the lines and is fine now.

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  #17  
Old 01-01-2014, 06:36 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangofox007 View Post
Diesel, I am 100% sure that some master cylinders (Ate in particular) have a weep hole. I am not speculating, not guessing, not 99% sure. I am 100% certain.



The weep hole is forward of the rear MC shaft seal. The portion of the MC containing the rear seal extends into the vacuum booster.



Try Google images. Ate master cylinder weep hole.
I did that but found no weep hole pictures....perhaps you can show us one. I know I have had quite a few ATE master cylinders in my hand and never seen a weep hole yet.
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  #18  
Old 01-01-2014, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I did that but found no weep hole pictures....perhaps you can show us one. I know I have had quite a few ATE master cylinders in my hand and never seen a weep hole yet.
Well then, can we move on and say there is no weep hole, so if I hadn't found any fluid then I would need to pull the master cylinder?

At this point, things are looking slim... Wolf's was on Christmas vacation until the sixth! I did finally find a tread on here that suggested a place called Onager Corp., which I did, but don't open until nine, so left a message.

My main concern is leaving an auto on the street in a high crime neighborhood and being in the way of street sweeping.
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1964 Volkswgen Beetle - Vater's since September 1968 and undergoing a restoration.

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  #19  
Old 01-01-2014, 10:51 AM
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What part of the latch has broken? If it's just the handle, then get that stinker off and use a pair of pliers to pull on the cable (there is a ball at that end). If it's stuck, have someone bounce the hood while you keep pulling on the cable. If it's the secondary that won't pop out, that can just be pried out from the grille (I've done it with my bare fingers). If it's a busted cable...

Can things get any worse, Broken w123 hood release cable
Hood cable, hood latches, hood release, HELP! cannot open hood!

If you just want to bust your grille, I'll mail you a decent one with fading but no cracks for the cost of shipping...
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  #20  
Old 01-01-2014, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I did that but found no weep hole pictures....perhaps you can show us one. I know I have had quite a few ATE master cylinders in my hand and never seen a weep hole yet.
Could it be that you are just not all that observant? The hole is fairly small, so it's not something that the casual observer would likely notice unless he was actually aware of it. Which, evidently, not many are.

Anyway, would you like to man up and get serious about the truth? How about a friendly $1000 wager that says some W123 master cylinders were designed with weep holes? That might be a bit more effective than offering into evidence what you haven't happened to notice.
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  #21  
Old 01-01-2014, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna View Post
What part of the latch has broken? If it's just the handle, then get that stinker off and use a pair of pliers to pull on the cable (there is a ball at that end). If it's stuck, have someone bounce the hood while you keep pulling on the cable. If it's the secondary that won't pop out, that can just be pried out from the grille (I've done it with my bare fingers). If it's a busted cable...

Can things get any worse, Broken w123 hood release cable
Hood cable, hood latches, hood release, HELP! cannot open hood!

If you just want to bust your grille, I'll mail you a decent one with fading but no cracks for the cost of shipping...
I got it! I was super tired last night, so didn't have the strength or courage to pull harder. Apparently I put too much into the storage well and made things worse... It has been sticking for a while and broke the handle...

I found the rear fluid dry and wetness out the junction between the master cylinder and the line, but felt fairly snug. Trouble is I don't have brake fluid of all the stuff I did bring!

So, any way to seal the line better?

I need to bleed the brakes, right?

Lesson learned: if the brake warning light is flashing, pull over and find the leak!

As for the grill, how is the chrome? I had to get a real junky grill and if yours has good strait chrome (don't care if it is also faded) I am very interested!
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Current fleet:

1985 Mercedes-Benz 280TE - Waiting for heart surgery.

1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TDT - Rear ended 23 September 2016 and now looking for a new home.

1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD - Parted out.

1964 Volkswgen Beetle - Vater's since September 1968 and undergoing a restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - in need of full restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Squareback automatic with F.I. - Vacationing with her caretaker until he is in better health.
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  #22  
Old 01-01-2014, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriel View Post

I found the rear fluid dry...

I need to bleed the brakes, right?
"Rear fluid" meaning the aft section of the reservoir?

If that is the case, stopping the leak and bleeding the front brakes is likely all you need to do. (Bleeding the brakes would include the lesser offense of adding brake fluid.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriel View Post
I found...wetness out the junction between the master cylinder and the line, but felt fairly snug.
My recommendation would be to remove the line fitting from the MC, clean the sealing surfaces and reinstall. A series of tighten/loosen slightly/tighten attempts will often result in a good seal.
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  #23  
Old 01-01-2014, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangofox007 View Post
"Rear fluid" meaning the aft section of the reservoir?

If that is the case, stopping the leak and bleeding the front brakes is likely all you need to do. (Bleeding the brakes would include the lesser offense of adding brake fluid.)



My recommendation would be to remove the line fitting from the MC, clean the sealing surfaces and reinstall. A series of tighten/loosen slightly/tighten attempts will often result in a good seal.
Thank you so very much!

Uggg, guess I should have gone back to bed...

Rear fluid reservoir and rear brake line.

I loath bleeding brakes...

The closest place is four miles. Would that be safe?
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Current fleet:

1985 Mercedes-Benz 280TE - Waiting for heart surgery.

1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TDT - Rear ended 23 September 2016 and now looking for a new home.

1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD - Parted out.

1964 Volkswgen Beetle - Vater's since September 1968 and undergoing a restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - in need of full restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Squareback automatic with F.I. - Vacationing with her caretaker until he is in better health.
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  #24  
Old 01-01-2014, 12:48 PM
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Onager's is Bob Gunthorp's shop. He's a good man and active in the vintage benz world. Be sure to ask him about his heckflosse long body cars.

-CTH
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  #25  
Old 01-01-2014, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cth350 View Post
Onager's is Bob Gunthorp's shop. He's a good man and active in the vintage benz world. Be sure to ask him about his heckflosse long body cars.

-CTH
Never got the call back, so bet he took the week off... So, can't ask about it.
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Current fleet:

1985 Mercedes-Benz 280TE - Waiting for heart surgery.

1985 Mercedes-Benz 300TDT - Rear ended 23 September 2016 and now looking for a new home.

1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD - Parted out.

1964 Volkswgen Beetle - Vater's since September 1968 and undergoing a restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Sunroof Squareback with F.I. - in need of full restoration.

1971 Volkswagen Squareback automatic with F.I. - Vacationing with her caretaker until he is in better health.
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  #26  
Old 01-01-2014, 01:03 PM
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Looking in the Google search about the weep hole, found this on a VW site...

The weep hole, on all the ATE M/C's I've ever seen , has been on the outside of the mounting flange, at the bottom.
It's small, and frequently plugged with rust/crud, undercoating, etc. I'm not even sure that "weep hole" is the
proper term, it may actually be a "vent hole". Without it, the front seals around the M/C cylinder will always be
exposed to engine vacuum, which doesn't seem like a desirable thing to me.


Charlie
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  #27  
Old 01-01-2014, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charmalu View Post
Looking in the Google search about the weep hole, found this on a VW site...

The weep hole, on all the ATE M/C's I've ever seen , has been on the outside of the mounting flange, at the bottom.
It's small, and frequently plugged with rust/crud, undercoating, etc. I'm not even sure that "weep hole" is the
proper term, it may actually be a "vent hole". Without it, the front seals around the M/C cylinder will always be
exposed to engine vacuum, which doesn't seem like a desirable thing to me.


Charlie
I'm not inclined to argue with Charlie but can you show a picture of where this hole is located please? I'm trying to imagine how engine vacuum would act on the master cylinder itself....isn't the vac sealed by the booster?

And I don't remember seeing shaft seals on the actuating rod...
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #28  
Old 01-01-2014, 01:34 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tangofox007 View Post
Could it be that you are just not all that observant? The hole is fairly small, so it's not something that the casual observer would likely notice unless he was actually aware of it. Which, evidently, not many are.

Anyway, would you like to man up and get serious about the truth? How about a friendly $1000 wager that says some W123 master cylinders were designed with weep holes? That might be a bit more effective than offering into evidence what you haven't happened to notice.
I'm man enough to bet either a quarter or a beer. If you can show a picture of this weep hole I will be glad to pay up.

It is my understanding if you have a seal failure in the mc the leak will fill the booster, so that tends to support the idea of no weep hole, though I have seen plenty of leaks which appear to be at the juncture between the mc and the booster, but there is not much of a seal there is there?
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #29  
Old 01-01-2014, 01:45 PM
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Is this it?



From - Testing Brake master cylinder - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

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87 300D
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  #30  
Old 01-01-2014, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I'm trying to imagine how engine vacuum would act on the master cylinder itself....isn't the vac sealed by the booster?
You probably never noticed, but removing the master cylinder leaves a big round hole in the front of the booster. And, the rubber seal at the MC/booster interface is not just a decoration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post

And I don't remember seeing shaft seals on the actuating rod...
You might want to seek medical help. Not sure if you need an optometrist or a neurologist.

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