Introducing my timing light - injection timing- digital RIV method- bench test - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

funola · #1 03-03-2014, 05:12 PM

The FSM procedure 07.1-108, Checking injection timing (begin of delivery) with digital tester (RIV method) has a diagram which shows a setup of 3 pieces of hardware for checking injection timing.

http://mercedes.thatchermathias.com/w123CD2/Program/Engine/617/07_1-108.pdf

The 3 pieces of hardware are:

617 589 10 2100 RI- Transmitter
617 589 09 2100 RI- Adapter (for available digital tester)
Bosch MOT 001.03 Digital tester

I have built my own system which provides the same functions as the above. Just did a bench test and took a short video.

On the left is a drill spinning a disc with a screw to simulate the tang behind the injection pump timing plug.

Clamped in the vise is the pickup (RI-transmitter)
The pickup is plugged into the RI- Adapter (The aluminum box) which outputs to an inductive timing light.
The digital tester is just a conventional inductive timing light.

CLICK TO PLAY VIDEO!
The portable drill goes up to 1000 RPM. As you can see, tracking is spot on at all speeds! The strobe cutout you see is due to the drill not hard mounted relative to the pickup so the gap moved a bit as I operated the drill. I will be testing this in the car over the next few days and will shoot another video.

Mölyapina · #2 03-03-2014, 05:25 PM

Nice work! That is awesome

. Should help with IP work.

funola · #3 03-03-2014, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jooseppi Luna

Nice work! That is awesome

.

Thanks!

Tmadia · #4 03-03-2014, 05:44 PM

Very cool!

whunter · #5 03-03-2014, 06:11 PM

Following this experiment.

.

Mxfrank · #6 03-03-2014, 07:32 PM

How much did the transmitter and adapter cost? Where did you source them?

KarTek · #7 03-03-2014, 09:26 PM

That's cool! As a variation on the idea, I'd like to see a test injector rigged up and the timing light pointed at the spray to see the degree difference between the timing signal and the actual injection event.

DeliveryValve · #8 03-03-2014, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

...

Impressive! Outstanding results so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarTek

That's cool! As a variation on the idea, I'd like to see a test injector rigged up and the timing light pointed at the spray to see the degree difference between the timing signal and the actual injection event.

This is an excellent idea!

funola · #9 03-03-2014, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mxfrank

How much did the transmitter and adapter cost? Where did you source them?

I made them myself.

funola · #10 03-03-2014, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarTek

That's cool! As a variation on the idea, I'd like to see a test injector rigged up and the timing light pointed at the spray to see the degree difference between the timing signal and the actual injection event.

Interesting test. How do you propose I set this up? Cranking or idling?

We are jumping the gun here. Although I am confident what I built will work on the engine, I have not actually installed it on the engine yet.

KarTek · #11 03-04-2014, 06:33 PM

Understand that you are still in development. I'm just brainstorming possible applications.

I envision a spare injection hard line, re-bent to run to an injector aimed into a large glass jar. You could connect this to the # one delivery valve and just run the engine at idle on 3/4, 4/5 or 5/6 cylinders.

My timing light has an advance adjustment dial so I also imagine that while the engine was running with your trigger mechanism attached, you could adjust the advance dial and shoot the injector spray until you could see the very beginning of the injection event.

This exercise would tell you the exact offset between the position of the trigger lug in the pump and the actual injection event and would take into account all of the variables - actual port closure, hard line flex, pop pressure, etc...

Then, you could shoot the crank indicator with the freshly calibrated timing light and adjust the pump until the desired indication is reached.

BillGrissom · #12 03-04-2014, 10:22 PM

Good work. How do you trigger the timing light - with a low voltage signal or with a high voltage? For the later, one could use a GM HEI module to drive a coil, and clamp over the HV spark lead as the timing light is normally used. A VR type crank sensor can trigger an HEI module. A round-about way, but with all off-the-shelf parts (have in my garage).

Reading between the lines of the M-B instructions, it appears their processing box times the delay between the TDC pulse and the RI pulse, and converts to crank angles. It seems you could just flash the timing light at the crank marks to verify it flashes at 15 deg ATDC. It appears that the RI pulse does not align with "start of delivery". Perhaps it marks TDC of the #1 IP piston.

ObsoElitist · #13 03-05-2014, 12:56 AM

I borrowed a Ford timing light setup for my 85 F-250 with International 6.9 L diesel with a Bosch injection system. It used some kind of inductive clamp on the fuel line to operate the light. Anyone tried it on a Benz?

KarTek · #14 03-05-2014, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ObsoElitist

I borrowed a Ford timing light setup for my 85 F-250 with International 6.9 L diesel with a Bosch injection system. It used some kind of inductive clamp on the fuel line to operate the light. Anyone tried it on a Benz?

Yeah, I have one made by Ferret but the clamp is too big for the line - the 606 has, I believe, 4.5mm lines and the clamp is designed for 6.25mm or some such. I put a collar around the line to try and make it work but the results are not encouraging.

funola · #15 03-05-2014, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarTek

Understand that you are still in development. I'm just brainstorming possible applications.

I envision a spare injection hard line, re-bent to run to an injector aimed into a large glass jar. You could connect this to the # one delivery valve and just run the engine at idle on 3/4, 4/5 or 5/6 cylinders.

My timing light has an advance adjustment dial so I also imagine that while the engine was running with your trigger mechanism attached, you could adjust the advance dial and shoot the injector spray until you could see the very beginning of the injection event.

This exercise would tell you the exact offset between the position of the trigger lug in the pump and the actual injection event and would take into account all of the variables - actual port closure, hard line flex, pop pressure, etc...

Then, you could shoot the crank indicator with the freshly calibrated timing light and adjust the pump until the desired indication is reached.

Your test would reveal some useful, non existent data on our engines. I do not have a timing light with advance currently and cannot do the test. Maybe when I have a working unit, I can let you borrow it and you can do the test?

Bad news:

I suffered a setback today. While installing the sensor into the IP timing plug, I damaged the wiring inside the sensor. It is not salvageable and is now junk since it is potted in epoxy. I have to come up with a better sensor design. What worked so well on the bench is no longer working on the bench. Damn, a lot of work went into that sensor! I have more parts on order which should arrive in a few weeks.