My digital RIV timing light - Engine testing - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

funola · #1 03-08-2014, 01:05 PM

In this thread http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/351858-introducing-my-timing-light-injection-timing-digital-riv-method.html I demonstrated my digital RIV timing light on the bench and it worked great. Getting it to work in the engine was a different story with a few setbacks. I worked out some of the kinks and got the sensor installed and just ran it in my 85 300D and shot the following video. It was very bright out- full sun and the contrast is not great. I will try to get a better video after sunset.

Per my RIV timing light, timing is around 14 deg after TDC. My MPG is not very good so I'll be measuring timing chain stretch and set the timing to FSM spec of 15 deg after TDC when it get's warmer and see if MPG improves. When reving the engine, I can see the timing marks advance. I'll try to get a video of that later.

I plan to offer my digital RIV timing light in the rental section when it is ready. There's more work to be done to make it more robust. I think it will be a very useful tool for many here.

CLICK TO PLAY VIDEO!

The timing light used is an Actron CP7529 Inductive with RPM and advance feature. Here you can see my RPM is 640, nice and steady.
CLICK TO PLAY VIDEO!

Stretch · #2 03-08-2014, 01:21 PM

...are you sure about the timing mark reading at the crank?

I made a sneaky screen shot of your video and it looks like you're at 7 degrees ATDC

funola · #3 03-08-2014, 01:25 PM

I am certain it is near 14 deg. It's not a very good video and the numbers are hard to read. I will mark the 15 deg mark with green paint later and shoot another video. If you look closely at the sneaky pic, you'll see the TDC pin above the triangular pointer.

Stretch · #4 03-08-2014, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

I am certain it is near 14 deg. It's not a very good video and the numbers are hard to read. I will mark the 15 deg mark with green paint later and shoot another video. If you look closely at the sneaky pic, you'll see the TDC pin above the triangular pointer.

Yep I can see the pin but it isn't at zero is it?

Here's a picture stolen from the wiki

http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM615OM616InjPumpTiming

funola · #5 03-08-2014, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Yep I can see the pin but it isn't at zero is it?

In mine, rotation of harmonic balancer is from bottom to top, Pin is at zero degree (TDC), pointer is at 14 degree after TDC. Make sense?

Stretch · #6 03-08-2014, 01:45 PM

Oh yeah pointer on the other side of the picture...

...looking forward to your green mark!!!

funola · #7 03-08-2014, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Oh yeah pointer on the other side of the picture...

...looking forward to your green mark!!!

Yeah, what engine is your wiki pic?

Edit: apparently 615/616 engines have the pointer on the other side of the mag pickup?

funola · #8 03-08-2014, 09:34 PM

I put a dab of green paint at 10 deg ATDC line, 2 dabs at the 20 deg ATDC, and painted over the 15 deg ATDC line. The new videos I took are still pretty crappy so I did not upload them. I'll try again tomorrow.

funola · #9 03-08-2014, 09:53 PM

This one is the best of the few videos I took so I decided to upload it. At idle, you can see it is not in the middle of 10 and 20 degrees (where 15 is), but at around 13 to 14 degrees. Revving the engine advances the timing. The rapping sound you hear is not from the engine but from the timing light resting/bouncing against the power steering pump. (Camera was in my left hand and right hand was working the throttle.)

CLICK TO PLAY VIDEO!

funola · #10 03-09-2014, 11:51 AM

Compared to the video below, which was using a different timing light, a different sensor (TDC RPM sensor on harmonic balancer), the new Actron timing light is more choppy. I want to investigate why. Is it the Actron light? Or is it the sensor gap not adjusted optimally, or the electronics?

Or maybe it is doing exactly what it's supposed to? The IP trigger tang is driven by the centrifugal advance, and also affected by the governor. What do you think? Maybe it's ok after all?

CLICK TO PLAY VIDEO!

funola · #11 03-21-2014, 12:30 PM

Progress!

Parts came in and I am almost done building a more robust sensor. I will be bench testing it soon before moving onto engine test. The drill used in the previous test goes up to 1300 RPM, not 1000 as stated previously. I'd like to test it above 3000 RPM in the next test. I'll be looking for a 3450 RPM AC motor.

I am also putting the electronics (getting rid of the box) into my old timing light (pic below), which was used in my first bench test setup. I found that the old timing light is brighter than the Actron. It has a much simpler design (without a microprocessor) but do not have the tach and advance function- which is nice to have but not absolutely necessary.

funola · #12 03-26-2014, 07:27 PM

Finished the new sensor and moving the circuitry into the timing light. No more box and inductive pickup, just the sensor with a cord to the Xenon timing light, and alligator clips cord to the battery for power. This is what it looks like.

Below is a bench test video. Max rpm of drill is 1350. I want to test it above 3000 RPM once I find a motor. It should handle it no problem.

CLICK TO PLAY VIDEO!

funola · #13 03-27-2014, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Yep I can see the pin but it isn't at zero is it?

Here's a picture stolen from the wiki

PeachPartsWiki: How to Set IP Timing via the Drip Tube Method

Stretch,

Since I have not heard back from you. I am wondering if I have cleared up this confusion?

In a nutshell, the wiki pic you posted is for for OM615 & 616 engines and not applicable to OM617 and later engines with IP's that have the RIV port. The timing pointer in the wiki pic is physically in a different location than OM617 turbo engines.

My timing light should work on all OM617 (with RIV port) and from what I can gather, later engines with inline injection pumps, OM602, 603 .....

Stretch · #14 03-27-2014, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Stretch,

Since I have not heard back from you. I am wondering if I have cleared up this confusion?

In a nutshell, the wiki pic you posted is for for OM615 & 616 engines and not applicable to OM617 and later engines with IP's that have the RIV port. The timing pointer in the wiki pic is physically in a different location than OM617 turbo engines.

My timing light should work on all OM617 (with RIV port) and from what I can gather, later engines with inline injection pumps, OM602, 603 .....

Sorry I've been off in the zone fighting the good fight again. I see now that the picture of the OM616 isn't applicable. I actually had a check on the non turbo OM617 sitting in the back of my garage the other day to find the timing marks are just like yours. So I got myself confused - all in a bunch about nothing!

funola · #15 04-08-2014, 03:03 PM

I have been testing the Xenon timing light on my 85 300D to work out the logistics of setting it up and adjusting sensor gap. I've put a lot of work into it so far. I am waiting to meet up with Brian Carlton to check my timing light against his RIV AB position indicator to establish a baseline against one of the Mercedes OE timing tools.

I just did a bench test with a 3500 RPM motor from an oil furnace burner. The sensor is just held on to a metal bracket with duct tape and clamped to the burner housing with Visegrips. The lug or tang is just a bent coat hanger held onto the motor shaft with a hose clamp. The coat hanger is at 11 o'clock pointing at the sensor.

[URL=http://s31.photobucket.com/user/funola/media/20140408_123244.jpg.html]

I don't know what's with Photobucket but all the videos above don't work anymore. Can you try it? I get the error "We're sorry, the file has been renamed or deleted by its owner".

Video below is uploaded to Youtube. Hope it works better.

This vid is measuring motor RPM with a phototach. indicating 3575 RPM
http://youtu.be/Jx1PpK66nIM

This vid is the timing light. It has no problem at 3575 RPM. This is good news since I will have confidence it will be accurate doing dynamic measurement of the timing advance on the engine.
http://youtu.be/pi8-RNDIHXE