Our daughter returned her new ford yesterday. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

barry12345 · #1 08-05-2014, 04:58 PM

Total miles 6,000 or ten thousand kilometers as our odometers read in Canada. Too many times hauled back to the ford dealership for engine failure. Mid range ford loaded so about a thirty K car. I think it had the 1.6 twin turbo and was boiling it's oil the dealership claimed.

I guess the last time in they told her it needed rotors and pads as well and they told her that was not warranty.

They also told her she could not return it. She told them the car is not serviceable apparently and I just purchased a new Toyota to replace it. Getting back and forth to work with no certainty is not a ford option. See you in court. I expect most if not all my money back.

Left the car at the dealership. Their loaners where always pay half deals when the car was down. Compounded by the car always failing in the middle of nowhere.

All she did was drive it back and forth to work. Quite a long distance and not much use of the brakes at all.

One thing that did get my attention early though was even the first time they seemed to have the car far too long. Or much longer than repairing a simple problem on a new car would take.

My best guess is the dealership knew it needed a new engine but where restricted by ford on replacing it. I had heard those 1.6 twin turbos where really bad news. Maybe so or maybe not as nobody we know drives the big three products locally anymore other than their pickup trucks.

Or they were they just missing dragging brakes as the cars claim for decent fuel milage was also non existant from day one. Why else would it need all new rotors and pads at 6K miles? This ford is a product of Mexican production I believe. The question is are they building junk down there?

She has had had at least several new cars over the years and is not a leave your foot on the brake pedal type of driver. I had wondered why she had brought a product of the big three again. Found out her husband had suggested it.

Her last new big three car was a sunbird many years ago. It too was almost always problematic. She had become used to getting about two hundred thousand miles out of all her cars in the period between these two big three gems. With minor issues other than brakes,tires, belts etc. Not a car that had to be flat bedded into the dealership on alternate weeks from day one.

pj67coll · #2 08-05-2014, 05:13 PM

Which model is is?

- Peter.

Zacharias · #3 08-05-2014, 05:21 PM

An acquaintance of mine who got laid off in his mid-30s went back to school and took a mechanics' course. He got hired by a Ford dealer. He figured he had hit the jackpot. Even though he was hired at I think under $12 an hour.

Not really. Ford has two sets of shop times, one for warranty work and the other for paying customers. Guess which one cuts the time for jobs by 20-50 percent. The justification is that the cars are new, everything should be easy to work on and the shop should have all the tools, etc. Not so when some stuff is being introduced without prior training for the techs, or the training is a "self-learning" DVD handed to them.

Also of course complex problems emerge in the real world that may not be covered by service bulletins until weeks or months after they are in the laps of dealer service employees to figure out while customers fume.

Dealers cannot afford to have their pricey, older experienced techs on warranty (and of course they don't want to do it either, given the return) so after paying $30 or $50 large for your shiny new car, you may have the least experienced guy in the shop trying to fix it. No one leaves the shop and he has no opportunity to advance (and this is a huge dealer).

He got transferred to the dealer's Range Rover side for a while and that was actually worse. People pay $90 grand for those things and if they knew how bad the service and parts support to dealers is from the company... it's near-comic. The dealers cannot even get parts for RRs over five years old from the company reliably. Where he works they keep photocopied sheets of contact info for Rovers North (think Pelican for Landies and Ranges) on the parts department counter.

Not that Ford has the monopoly on this. The guy who does shop stuff for me swears he has had fasteners snap off from rust on the underside of KIAs less than two years old.

Honestly I don't understand where this all ends. Between cheap new cars and substandard Chinese goods that end up in the waste cycle in one third the time they should, we are slowly drowning in our own junk.

barry12345 · #4 08-05-2014, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Which model is is?

- Peter.

Tell me the ford model list as I am not familiar with their lineup. Medium to large body. Not a focus size. I guessed the canadian price because it had a large navigation screen in the dash etc. Can not remember if it had a sunroof but thought so. Think the model name starts with an M. Only saw the car once.

We seldom see this daughter in person as she is just too busy. She was upset the other day because she missed the family reunion at our cottage on the wives side of the family. My wife told her she had notified her twice it was coming up.

People came from the Yukon, British Columbia and all over the place. Many had not seen each other for years. I tried to stay in the background as it was more of their event. This daughter in reaching for an expanding womans career over the years has done well but I think a price has been paid for the effort. I hope she does not feel it was too much as she gets older.

Zacharias · #5 08-05-2014, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

Tell me the ford model list as I am not familiar with their lineup. Medium to large body. Not a focus size. I guessed the canadian price because it had a large navigation screen in the dash etc. Can not remember if it had a sunroof but thought so. Think the model name starts with an M.

Mid size is Fusion.

Only M is Mustang but I would think you would be able to remember that one....

barry12345 · #6 08-05-2014, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

Mid size is Fusion.

Only M is Mustang but I would think you would be able to remember that one....

You got it. It was the fusion. Excuse my laxity as I only saw the car once. Also I basically no longer follow the newer big three labels.

Wonder where I generated the starts with an M from? Yes any older brand model would have automatically been a simple reflex action to remember. .

Zacharias · #7 08-05-2014, 05:52 PM

Unfortunate, I actually thought the Fusion to be a pretty decent car now, though the first few years weren't exactly an achievement.

Around here we are drowning in KIAs, I assume because they are kicking them out in very well equipped spec for very cheap payments.

sleepstar · #8 08-05-2014, 06:20 PM

are there lemon laws up there? if that happened in california you'd be entitled to compensation or a replacement with an entirely different car.

i don't think its so much a problem with mexico as it is quality control from american car makers

barry12345 · #9 08-05-2014, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

An acquaintance of mine who got laid off in his mid-30s went back to school and took a mechanics' course. He got hired by a Ford dealer. He figured he had hit the jackpot. Even though he was hired at I think under $12 an hour.

Not really. Ford has two sets of shop times, one for warranty work and the other for paying customers. Guess which one cuts the time for jobs by 20-50 percent. The justification is that the cars are new, everything should be easy to work on and the shop should have all the tools, etc. Not so when some stuff is being introduced without prior training for the techs, or the training is a "self-learning" DVD handed to them.

Also of course complex problems emerge in the real world that may not be covered by service bulletins until weeks or months after they are in the laps of dealer service employees to figure out while customers fume.

Dealers cannot afford to have their pricey, older experienced techs on warranty (and of course they don't want to do it either, given the return) so after paying $30 or $50 large for your shiny new car, you may have the least experienced guy in the shop trying to fix it. No one leaves the shop and he has no opportunity to advance (and this is a huge dealer).

He got transferred to the dealer's Range Rover side for a while and that was actually worse. People pay $90 grand for those things and if they knew how bad the service and parts support to dealers is from the company... it's near-comic. The dealers cannot even get parts for RRs over five years old from the company reliably. Where he works they keep photocopied sheets of contact info for Rovers North (think Pelican for Landies and Ranges) on the parts department counter.

Not that Ford has the monopoly on this. The guy who does shop stuff for me swears he has had fasteners snap off from rust on the underside of KIAs less than two years old.

Honestly I don't understand where this all ends. Between cheap new cars and substandard Chinese goods that end up in the waste cycle in one third the time they should, we are slowly drowning in our own junk.

The shop rate here is getting to about 100 an hour. The mechanics are required to supply all their own general tools and their pay is very low for a skilled trade. They revolted over it once at a large local dealership many years ago.I have no ideal how it was settled.

How this came about raises some questions. Still it seems to persist. A sixteen year old kid working at a call centre right out of school does not make much less locally.

To compound the mess there seems to be some dishonesty prevelant in this trade or at least more so than many others. It also seems to be a thankless dirty job for many mechanics working in dealerships.

All this is hard on the independent honest mechanic. He knows at least twice as much money is being taken in by the dishonest guys for the same job for starters. Unfortunatly not many honest type independants are left out there as well.

Most local people drive cars that are under warranty and replace them as soon as the warranty lapses. That seems to be about the only way they can afford to own cars around here. Or at least the cheapest. Used cars are not much of an alternative.

Old guys like myself that can repair their cars if something is failing and find the time to do so are thinning fast. We acquired the tools to do so over the years as well.

Even if you wanted to really start today it would be expensive to round up all of what you really need in a rustbelt area like ours. Perhaps cheaper to face a service bill for between 500-1000 dollars occasionally.

Welcome to the disposable society where the vast amount of things we aquire are basically throwaway. Keeps what there is of the economy functioning though has to be a consideration.

An older guy than me recently asked me what I thought was going on out there now. I told him in my opinion we may have entered a new era in a seriously way.

That no matter what the problems are printing money will be the answer to them. Of course this is not a total freebee long term. Instead perhaps the only course left in reality for now.

Something is maintaining our standard of living but I do not think we are really paying for it. Or at least the standard of living in general to me appears to be much higher than the old economic rules would allow.

This of course since the massive change over from a once really productive north America in comparison to today. The overall concepts of all this are hard for a person like myself to really grasp.

At the same time I am pretty certain that this is what is occurring. I could give almost endless examples of what I base this on in my opinion. There is not much point to doing that though. It simply is what it is.

ROLLGUY · #10 08-05-2014, 07:16 PM

Sounds to me like she needs a classic Mercedes Benz Diesel. That would solve all her car problems.

gatorblue92 · #11 08-05-2014, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

An acquaintance of mine who got laid off in his mid-30s went back to school and took a mechanics' course. He got hired by a Ford dealer. He figured he had hit the jackpot. Even though he was hired at I think under $12 an hour.

Not really. Ford has two sets of shop times, one for warranty work and the other for paying customers. Guess which one cuts the time for jobs by 20-50 percent. The justification is that the cars are new, everything should be easy to work on and the shop should have all the tools, etc. Not so when some stuff is being introduced without prior training for the techs, or the training is a "self-learning" DVD handed to them.

Also of course complex problems emerge in the real world that may not be covered by service bulletins until weeks or months after they are in the laps of dealer service employees to figure out while customers fume.

Dealers cannot afford to have their pricey, older experienced techs on warranty (and of course they don't want to do it either, given the return) so after paying $30 or $50 large for your shiny new car, you may have the least experienced guy in the shop trying to fix it. No one leaves the shop and he has no opportunity to advance (and this is a huge dealer).

He got transferred to the dealer's Range Rover side for a while and that was actually worse. People pay $90 grand for those things and if they knew how bad the service and parts support to dealers is from the company... it's near-comic. The dealers cannot even get parts for RRs over five years old from the company reliably. Where he works they keep photocopied sheets of contact info for Rovers North (think Pelican for Landies and Ranges) on the parts department counter.

Not that Ford has the monopoly on this. The guy who does shop stuff for me swears he has had fasteners snap off from rust on the underside of KIAs less than two years old.

Honestly I don't understand where this all ends. Between cheap new cars and substandard Chinese goods that end up in the waste cycle in one third the time they should, we are slowly drowning in our own junk.

There is only one way to own a Range Rover...

Why Your Next Unreliable Luxury Car Should Come From CarMax

barry12345 · #12 08-05-2014, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacharias

Unfortunate, I actually thought the Fusion to be a pretty decent car now, though the first few years weren't exactly an achievement.

Around here we are drowning in KIAs, I assume because they are kicking them out in very well equipped spec for very cheap payments.

Kias are selling even better than hyundais that have been around longer locally. They are everywhere. And basically the same company produces both. Many in rust prone areas will not buy a second one though.

Actually in Canada they are priced simularily to Toyota and Honda or the price spread is not great. Both Japanese labels are more durabile locally.

Retained value has been better as well by a large margin so far with the principal Japanese labels. So overall they are actually cheaper. We have one kia I have never driven much. Maybe 100 miles total. Basically auction to home. It was a loaded 2005 spectra I picked up at a car auction as it had no reserve and no bidders except myself.

I just threw an low opening bid out to get the car gone through quicker. This was several years ago when nobody wanted a used Kia. Probably 2009.

Yet after accidentally getting the car since nobody else bid. It drove very well and in general surprised me. It still sits needing a few things when I purchased it.

A heater motor I already replaced from ebay a long time ago. . All rotors and pads sitting in the trunk already purchased and waiting. And the linkage to the heat selector had popped off. I have not popped it back on yet.

Other than that it was and still is spotless inside and out and mechanically perfect. Whatever dealer put the car in the auction did remove the tires I think and put badly worn ones on as well before putting the car in. I suspect it was a womans car originally.

Why I have not bothered with it is the interior is white. I have essentially nothing into it and I use my own cars as partial trucks. You do not do this with spotless white upholstery. Cart the dog around in anything I am daily using as well. Same reasons I want older lower milage cars for general use.

My wife will not let me use her cars either over the years simply because I am always picking up building stuff in any car I use. With all repairs and new tires plus the purchase price there might be a grand in the buggy when ready to roll. Rotors and pads where 440.00 plus tax locally for that year spectra. One hundred and twenty delivered from Toronto by courier for all four Canadian made rotors and pads.