1982 300D won't start -- is engine turning fast enough? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

hawkwing · #1 08-31-2014, 10:54 PM

I'm trying to diagnose a no start issue on a new car, here's a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xff8UAx_tQE

and here's the car history

* bought the car 2 weeks ago (still excited!). started without issue on first or second try every day.
* last week it ran out of fuel (oops, sticky fuel gauge)
* two nights ago I left the parking lights on by accident and the next morning it wouldn't start. it also frosted that night for the first time this year (this is Alaska).
* yesterday I charged the battery and plugged in the block heater, it still wouldn't start. 55F during the day.
* today I replaced the battery (new) and checked the following:
** glow plugs getting 12V -- yes (PO says they're new, haven't verified)
** fuel to each injector -- yes
** air in injector lines -- no
** air filter -- ok
** block heater -- ok
** compression -- don't know. don't have tools to do the valve adjustment yet

I'm not sure if I've done something or it's just a coincidence that it won't start after draining the battery, but even with the new one it sounds the same. On another thread someone suggested that an expert could identify whether it's turning over fast enough or not with a video. Any thoughts? I haven't checked the starter, I'm not even sure where it is.

thanks

vstech · #2 08-31-2014, 11:44 PM

Welcome to the forum!

if you are getting 12v measuring voltage with the glow plugs on, they are burned out.

healthy plugs will drop the battery voltage to around 10 or 11... go find some beru or bosch plugs and change them.

hawkwing · #3 08-31-2014, 11:49 PM

Thanks, I just tested them with a test light, not a volt meter, as per the ************** videos...

vstech · #4 08-31-2014, 11:53 PM

ahh, so you only know they are getting voltage, not what the voltage is.

so you have eleminated the GP relay and the GP fuse, but not the GP's themselves...

ignore the site you attempted to link to/mention. they are blocked by the forum because of their competition to the parts sales on this site.

dieselgiant.com they have some great pictorials on testing the car.

SunDance · #5 08-31-2014, 11:56 PM

Did you fully charge the new battery?

hawkwing · #6 08-31-2014, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDance

Did you fully charge the new battery?

No, I got it brand new, should I have?

SunDance · #7 09-01-2014, 12:12 AM

Yes. These batteries sit on the store shelf for many months. Many years ago I learned the hard way that these new batteries do not have enough charge to start a diesel engine. I always charge overnight or for a few days any new battery that I buy for any of my cars. You will know if your battery is charged when it stops to pull any amps (0 to 1 amps is ok) from the charger.

hawkwing · #8 09-01-2014, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDance

Yes. These batteries sit on the store shelf for many months. Many years ago I learned the hard way that these new batteries do not have enough charge to start a diesel engine. I always charge overnight or for a few days any new battery that I buy for any of my cars. You will know if your battery is charged when it stops to pull any amps (0 to 1 amps is ok) from the charger.

Thanks for the tip. It's on the charger now, I'll try again in the morning.

whunter · #9 09-01-2014, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawkwing

I'm trying to diagnose a no start issue on a new car, here's a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xff8UAx_tQE

and here's the car history

* bought the car 2 weeks ago (still excited!). started without issue on first or second try every day.
* last week it ran out of fuel (oops, sticky fuel gauge)
* two nights ago I left the parking lights on by accident and the next morning it wouldn't start. it also frosted that night for the first time this year (this is Alaska).
* yesterday I charged the battery and plugged in the block heater, it still wouldn't start. 55F during the day.
* today I replaced the battery (new) and checked the following:
** glow plugs getting 12V -- yes (PO says they're new, haven't verified)
** fuel to each injector -- yes
** air in injector lines -- no
** air filter -- ok
** block heater -- ok
** compression -- don't know. don't have tools to do the valve adjustment yet

I'm not sure if I've done something or it's just a coincidence that it won't start after draining the battery, but even with the new one it sounds the same. On another thread someone suggested that an expert could identify whether it's turning over fast enough or not with a video. Any thoughts? I haven't checked the starter, I'm not even sure where it is.

thanks

It sounds like the injection pump sucked serious air.
Here is a fast way to get it running again.

You need two fresh cans of WD40.
Remove the air cleaner.
Have an assistant crank the engine on command.

Spray both cans of WD40 into the intake for TWO seconds (keep spraying), and have your assistant start cranking the engine.

You should have it running within 30 - 60 seconds.
Warning: Cranking longer than 60 seconds will damage the starter.

Stop spraying if you stop cranking and/or when it begins to run on its own.

OM617 cranking sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5FzQwXbnmQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IexqLYrGvrg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t4-NhhlggQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4T3U2QYrgw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6t-wIcvSHE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e82nzaH9rs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKPI-sqWa6U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuRxgeDgVok&feature=gv#docid=6927372785548115014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB6fqWof6ig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGLAgBF7vDw

.

funola · #10 09-01-2014, 12:47 AM

Your starter sounds to be on the slow side to my "trained" ear but not slow enough to not start a normal healthy engine. My healthy starter and battery spins at 180 to 190 rpm. I just saw a post of a starter at 200 rpm and a gear reduction starter at 214 rpm. Yours sounds to be around 140 rpm. Your starter also slow down then speed up at approximately a one hertz rate that mine does not do. Something in the starter or something else causing it? Can you hear it?

Lets assume your glow plugs are ok and did not all burn out after you ran out of fuel. How did you fill the IP and filter and bleed the air out? Did you follow the FSM procedure?

funola · #11 09-01-2014, 01:13 AM

This is 190 rpm during no glow plug start.

Click to play

hawkwing · #12 09-01-2014, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Lets assume your glow plugs are ok and did not all burn out after you ran out of fuel. How did you fill the IP and filter and bleed the air out? Did you follow the FSM procedure?

Hmmm. I don't have any manuals yet so I certainly didn't follow any procedure. My gf was driving when it ran empty (dear internet: skip the denigrating replies about women, please). By the time I got there she had put 5 gallons in and cranked it 3-4 times with no luck, but didn't know about the priming pump. So I primed it (old style pump leaks when pumping, need to get a new one) and it started right up. Didn't do anything else after that, it then ran fine for 2 days before dying.

Today, just to check, I loosened the injector nuts and cranked the starter until fuel bubbled out of each one.

But do tell me more about good ways to burn out my glow plugs... could 3x 30 second burns without fuel burn them up?