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  #1  
Old 10-15-2014, 09:32 PM
mike-81-240d's Avatar
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Delivery Valve Seals OM617

My 1981 300TD turbodiesel has a very weird rough idle problem. I was talking to a mechanic today who also happens to be a forum member here/300TD owner (whippleman104). He said he had a customer come in with a 240D with the same symptoms. It required a rebuilt IP.

Does anybody know where to purchase just the delivery valve seals?

I found a thread from 2004, but apparently the seals have been discontinued since then.

My other option is to find a used injection pump, but I would really like to avoid swapping pumps.
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1981 300TD 4 speed manual
Euro bumpers, zender valance and skirts, H&R springs, billy HD's, leveled sls, real AMG Pentas 16x8 et11, vdo boost/egt gauges intergrated into ash tray, eurolights, led 3rd brake light
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  #2  
Old 10-15-2014, 09:49 PM
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ordered mine from the mb dealership. had them in a few days
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-81-240d View Post
My 1981 300TD turbodiesel has a very weird rough idle problem. I was talking to a mechanic today who also happens to be a forum member here/300TD owner (whippleman104). He said he had a customer come in with a 240D with the same symptoms. It required a rebuilt IP.

Does anybody know where to purchase just the delivery valve seals?

I found a thread from 2004, but apparently the seals have been discontinued since then.

My other option is to find a used injection pump, but I would really like to avoid swapping pumps.
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  #3  
Old 10-15-2014, 10:07 PM
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The delivery valve crush washers are still commonly available from any Bosch fuel injection service center. The PN for a 617 out of an '83 300SD is listed somewhere in my Toyota conversion thread, it's almost certainly the same for yours. A safer bet would be to have the numbers off your IP handy and call a Bosch service center, they'll be able to look it up for you.

If I remember right, my data plate on my IP was on the block side of the pump and hard to read, I stuck my phone in the gap between the block and the IP, under the injection hard lines, and snapped a picture of the data plate.
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:33 PM
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Good to know, thanks guys.

I'm calling Seattle injector tomorrow with the numbers handy.

I talked to my indie, and he recommended them as they are very experienced with mercedes diesel.
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1981 300TD 4 speed manual
Euro bumpers, zender valance and skirts, H&R springs, billy HD's, leveled sls, real AMG Pentas 16x8 et11, vdo boost/egt gauges intergrated into ash tray, eurolights, led 3rd brake light
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  #5  
Old 10-15-2014, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-81-240d View Post
My 1981 300TD turbodiesel has a very weird rough idle problem. I was talking to a mechanic today who also happens to be a forum member here/300TD owner (whippleman104). He said he had a customer come in with a 240D with the same symptoms. It required a rebuilt IP.

Does anybody know where to purchase just the delivery valve seals?

I found a thread from 2004, but apparently the seals have been discontinued since then.

My other option is to find a used injection pump, but I would really like to avoid swapping pumps.
Please describe the Idle Problem and anything that was done to correct it. There is about 5 things that can cause a rough idle.
Mine used to rough after about 10 minutes of driving. There was several different things I had to do to fix it.
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  #6  
Old 10-16-2014, 02:40 AM
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It's a very bi polar idle issue.

It varies stop light to stop light.

The whole car shakes side to side and fore to aft. The car lopes, not hunting for idle at all, but it lopes. Occasionally misfire, smoke the lot.

Rack damper bolt had little to no effect on it.

Even attempted swapping from my rebuilt monark 265's to my bosch injectors, no change. Talked to whippleman104 at his shop, and he said he's seen it first hand and had to fix it.
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1981 300TD 4 speed manual
Euro bumpers, zender valance and skirts, H&R springs, billy HD's, leveled sls, real AMG Pentas 16x8 et11, vdo boost/egt gauges intergrated into ash tray, eurolights, led 3rd brake light
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  #7  
Old 10-16-2014, 02:41 AM
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Tank screen is removed (PO did this), brand new primary and secondary filters.
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1981 300TD 4 speed manual
Euro bumpers, zender valance and skirts, H&R springs, billy HD's, leveled sls, real AMG Pentas 16x8 et11, vdo boost/egt gauges intergrated into ash tray, eurolights, led 3rd brake light
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  #8  
Old 10-16-2014, 01:06 PM
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[QUOTE=mike-81-240d;3397154]It's a very bi polar idle issue.

It varies stop light to stop light.

The whole car shakes side to side and fore to aft. The car lopes, not hunting for idle at all, but it lopes. Occasionally misfire, smoke the lot.

Rack damper bolt had little to no effect on it.

Even attempted swapping from my rebuilt monark 265's to my bosch injectors, no change. Talked to whippleman104 at his shop, and he said he's seen it first hand and had to fix it.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure what you mean in the Red.

I tried the Rack damper bolt and it did little.

I am going to give the whole list of what worked for Me even though you tried the Injectors.

Valve Adjustment and rebuilding the Injectors took away most of the Shaking
Next was new Motor and Transmission Mounts

Then I had a small Air Leak that only showed up when under the hood it was hot. Replacing the 2 Sections of Fuel Inlet Hose cured that.

After that the Rack damper bolt was able to remove a little shaking.

Not related to My issue but others have had the Fuel Pressure Relief/Overflow Valve Spring compressed too Much or Fuel Supply/Lift Pump issues.
Long Fuel Pressure Relief Valve/Overflow Valve Thread
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=234609

Typicall sources of Air Leaks the Fuel Inlet Hoses, cracked Primary (Plastic) filter and the Hand Primer; especially if you have the old Style Hand Primer with the Shiny Aluminum Body.

A few have said repalcing the Delivery Valves helped the Idle but I have not read a specific way to narrow it down to them.
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  #9  
Old 10-16-2014, 11:00 PM
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To add to diesel911...a IP timing can also fix that issue...

Also as was said, there are a bunch of small things that can also cause this issue...
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Old 10-17-2014, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-81-240d View Post

Does anybody know where to purchase just the delivery valve seals?

.
I doubt that only seals are issue,DV's itself more probably,...anyways
you will need both to make a swap.

cheers
ChO


.
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  #11  
Old 10-17-2014, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cho View Post
...anyways
you will need both to make a swap.

cheers
ChO


.
Interesting. Now there is conflicting data on the 617 delivery valve seals. There are old threads on replacing them...
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1981 300TD 4 speed manual
Euro bumpers, zender valance and skirts, H&R springs, billy HD's, leveled sls, real AMG Pentas 16x8 et11, vdo boost/egt gauges intergrated into ash tray, eurolights, led 3rd brake light
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2014, 07:54 AM
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no conflicts

if seals are bed they leak
(bosch 1 410 105 020 or any other copper 14x10x0.5mm)

if DV's are bad they shake
(1 418 512 008)

third option is bad IP...you dont want to go there

very simple to change ...dont forget to prime hard lines after
(have a full battery just in case)
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2014, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-81-240d View Post
Interesting. Now there is conflicting data on the 617 delivery valve seals. There are old threads on replacing them...
I am not sure what is conflicting.
The MW Fuel Injection Pumps have only the Copper Crush Washers. When I look in the Parts List they have specific sizes depending on which Pump Number you have. If one of more of the Crush Washers is leaking then it can cause the Idle Shaking you are speaking of but it is rare for them to leak if they are installed properly and the correct Crushwashers for your Fuel Injection Pump are used.

I don't know if they Crush Washer Number you were given is correct as I have never even taken the time to look them up for My own Fule Injection Pump using the Numbers on the Fuel Injection Number Plate.

If you have an M Type Fuel Injection Pump it will have Crush Washers and O-rings. On them when the O-rings leak it can cause the Idle Shaking you are having.
A lot of 240Ds had M Type Pumps as well as some Euro non-turbo 617s.

When I worked in a Fuel Injection Shop and inspected the Delivery Valves it is very similar to a Valve and Seat in your Cylinder Head (the Central Valve and outer Body of the Valve are a mated set).

I inspected the seating areas on both parts of the Delivery Valve. If they were slighly worn we had some like 1200 or 1600 grit lapping Compound ready mixed in some sort of thing Grease. I took a Tooth Pick and carefully applied the Compund to the wear/seating araa only and I turned the valve by hand and lapped it.
If I did not get it to seat well then the Delivery Valve was replaced.

When you do that you only want the laping Comppound to get onto the seating area you don't want it inside of the Valve Body.

That being said I have never looked at mine on the Mercedes and have no idea what condition they are in.

I also have not seen anyone post any pics of bad Delivery Valves.
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Old 10-18-2014, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
I am not sure what is conflicting.
The MW Fuel Injection Pumps have only the Copper Crush Washers. When I look in the Parts List they have specific sizes depending on which Pump Number you have. If one of more of the Crush Washers is leaking then it can cause the Idle Shaking you are speaking of but it is rare for them to leak if they are installed properly and the correct Crushwashers for your Fuel Injection Pump are used.

I don't know if they Crush Washer Number you were given is correct as I have never even taken the time to look them up for My own Fule Injection Pump using the Numbers on the Fuel Injection Number Plate.

If you have an M Type Fuel Injection Pump it will have Crush Washers and O-rings. On them when the O-rings leak it can cause the Idle Shaking you are having.
A lot of 240Ds had M Type Pumps as well as some Euro non-turbo 617s.

When I worked in a Fuel Injection Shop and inspected the Delivery Valves it is very similar to a Valve and Seat in your Cylinder Head (the Central Valve and outer Body of the Valve are a mated set).

I inspected the seating areas on both parts of the Delivery Valve. If they were slighly worn we had some like 1200 or 1600 grit lapping Compound ready mixed in some sort of thing Grease. I took a Tooth Pick and carefully applied the Compund to the wear/seating araa only and I turned the valve by hand and lapped it.
If I did not get it to seat well then the Delivery Valve was replaced.

When you do that you only want the laping Comppound to get onto the seating area you don't want it inside of the Valve Body.

That being said I have never looked at mine on the Mercedes and have no idea what condition they are in.

I also have not seen anyone post any pics of bad Delivery Valves.
He said you have to replace the seals as well as the delivery valves themselves. That conflicts with everything else I've read. Everything I've read so far says to simply install new seals and be done with it.

I noticed some weeping on the IP by the clyinder number 1 delivery valve, but before I order seals from Seattle injector I'm going to restrech the spring just incase.
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1981 300TD 4 speed manual
Euro bumpers, zender valance and skirts, H&R springs, billy HD's, leveled sls, real AMG Pentas 16x8 et11, vdo boost/egt gauges intergrated into ash tray, eurolights, led 3rd brake light
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  #15  
Old 10-18-2014, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-81-240d View Post
He said you have to replace the seals as well as the delivery valves themselves. That conflicts with everything else I've read. Everything I've read so far says to simply install new seals and be done with it.

I noticed some weeping on the IP by the clyinder number 1 delivery valve, but before I order seals from Seattle injector I'm going to restrech the spring just incase.
The #1 is where you would Drip Time the Fuel Injection Pump.

When I drip Timed Mine I had fogotten to order the new Crush Washer. I had to reuse the Old One. In my case it has not leaked after being reused but I was just darn lucky.

If you replace the Delivery Valves of course you need to replace the Crush washers and the O-rings if they type of IP you have needs them.
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