Do transmission filters on a healthy transmission get clogged? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

TMAllison · #16 10-19-2014, 04:38 PM

Mine was first changed up at 175k or so. Fluid looked and smelled exactly like 80/90 gear oil from years gone by. Pan had thick brown sludge from clutch material as well as some metal shavings present.

$3,000 part + labor vs $15 part + 5 extra minutes of your time = no brainer.

Even starting out life poorly maintained, it never slipped or gave any hint of problems.

shertex · #17 10-19-2014, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMAllison

Mine was first changed up at 175k or so. Fluid looked and smelled exactly like 80/90 gear oil from years gone by. Pan had thick brown sludge from clutch material as well as some metal shavings present.

$3,000 part + labor vs $15 part + 5 extra minutes of your time = no brainer.

Even starting out life poorly maintained, it never slipped or gave any hint of problems.

That's impressive that you made it to 311k with no service done until 175k.

I've had fluid and filter done on both of mine every 40k including TC drain so they should have nice long lives.

TMAllison · #18 10-19-2014, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shertex

That's impressive that you made it to 311k with no service done until 175k.

I've had fluid and filter done on both of mine every 40k including TC drain so they should have nice long lives.

That would not be typical for most 722.6's.

Don't quote me as I've purged most of what I once knew: The original "filled for life" service recommendation wasn't rescinded for a few years after the birth of my '99 IIRC, I believe it was in '02. The service interval then changed to change once at 100k for a couple of years, which was then changed to service every 60k. The service interval finally settled in at service every 37,500 miles. That evolution took 8-10 years and for much of that time many dealers weren't aware service intervals were being revised.

sokoloff · #19 10-20-2014, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMAllison

That would not be typical for most 722.6's.

Don't quote me as I've purged most of what I once knew: The original "filled for life" service recommendation wasn't rescinded for a few years after the birth of my '99 IIRC, I believe it was in '02. The service interval then changed to change once at 100k for a couple of years, which was then changed to service every 60k. The service interval finally settled in at service every 37,500 miles. That evolution took 8-10 years and for much of that time many dealers weren't aware service intervals were being revised.

But they didn't go back and change the intervals for the "filled for life" transmissions did they? I thought the new service requirements only applied to the cars going forward? I do mine every 50,000 miles. My '99 has the torque converter drain plug, so that's one reason I'd like to hang onto it and keep it going for awhile.

shertex · #20 10-20-2014, 11:20 AM

I'm not sure the argument that the existence of a filter implies that it necessarily should be replaced is valid. Did some research on the ATF filter for my 02 Odyssey. Both Honda and a reputable indie shop that specializes in Hondas argue that it's designed to be be non-serviceable in the sense that, if the fluid is regularly changed and thereby kept clean, there should never be a need to change the filter.....and that if the filter ever DID need to be changed, it would imply more serious problems.

vstech · #21 10-20-2014, 11:38 AM

so, your argument is that the filter is there solely for a catastrophic failure...

in which case, the transmission would need rebuilding or replacement, so... why have a filter?

every hydraulic system has a filter in it for several reasons. the pump is usually a gearoter pump with tight tolerances. the bearings are tight tolerances, the loads are high, and the oil is subject to shear loads. the friction surfaces are wearing on parts constantly...

a flush machine pressure flushes fluid from it's tank into the transmission... does it remove all the fluid? maybe. would draining the pan, then the TC, then refilling it, then running the cooler into a bucket get every last drop of fluid out, negating the need to change the filter? maybe.

a new filter catches lint, dirt, burned oil, metal, etc... I suppose if the fluid was changed every 5000 miles, it may not ever impact the filter... but to think the standard interval of 50K thereabouts is frequent enough to negate the need for a filter is foolhardy...

sure, the newest transmissions may have a screen and a sump design that negates the need for service, and filter changing... but they are only out there to extend service until the warranty is up. lowering their mechanics fees, and creating a new car sale tactic... if the transmission fails on a 5 or 10 year old car, odds are good the owner will buy a new car, not get it fixed... used car sales, with out of warranty repairs are a moneymaker... not in warranty service.

Stretch · #22 10-20-2014, 11:53 AM

I totally agree with the sentiments that have been given before that say - the filter was designed to be there and so it should be changed.

There is some measured pressure "evidence" in this thread that shows the effect of a new filter =>

240D potential transmission failure

(722.117 transmission)

Don't forget that the 722.1 and 722.3 (and probably the 722.4 and .5) transmissions have vents at the top of their casings that go directly to atmosphere - no filter - where perhaps additional muck could find its way in after 20+ years...

Zulfiqar · #23 10-20-2014, 01:13 PM

Please dont compare the so called filter in the honda trans, its a cylindrical mesh tube in a metal box that is sitting on the oil pump pickup and it does get clogged from clutch material etc. When it does guess what Honda says.

The filter getting clogged is a sign that your transmission is in need of a rebuild - and with that Honda trans - the design is vertical split case which then means that you actually have to take the trans to bits just to replace the filter (being a strainer screen - you still cant clean it because only 1/3rd of it is exposed from a little window in the sheet metal case its in. This is the no.1 reason all shops install a magnefine filter on them.

If your trans has a sump and its accesible and has a filter in said sump, its a serviceable part that does require change. Also if your trans has a sump - the builders were already in their right minds - so why doubt.

Mxfrank · #24 10-20-2014, 07:42 PM

I very rarely change transmission filters. What I do is suction out the fluid in the pan whenever I do an engine oil change, and replace just that. So about 2.5 qts are changed every 5000 miles. I only do the whole change/filter procedure if I have a leaky gasket or some other problem that requires openning the case. The tranny in my 190D failed at 325K miles, which seems to be about how far a 722.4 goes in this car. New transmission is getting the same treatment.

I have many decades of driving under my belt, and I've never had a clogged transmission filter on any car, Mercedes or other.

vstech · #25 10-21-2014, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mxfrank

I very rarely change transmission filters. What I do is suction out the fluid in the pan whenever I do an engine oil change, and replace just that. So about 2.5 qts are changed every 5000 miles. I only do the whole change/filter procedure if I have a leaky gasket or some other problem that requires openning the case. The tranny in my 190D failed at 325K miles, which seems to be about how far a 722.4 goes in this car. New transmission is getting the same treatment.

I have many decades of driving under my belt, and I've never had a clogged transmission filter on any car, Mercedes or other.

Hmm. This would be an acceptable alternative I think. Frequent oil refreshment should get the oil contaminants out. I'd recommend the drain on a hot trans though...

shertex · #26 10-21-2014, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mxfrank

I very rarely change transmission filters. What I do is suction out the fluid in the pan whenever I do an engine oil change, and replace just that. So about 2.5 qts are changed every 5000 miles. I only do the whole change/filter procedure if I have a leaky gasket or some other problem that requires openning the case. The tranny in my 190D failed at 325K miles, which seems to be about how far a 722.4 goes in this car. New transmission is getting the same treatment.

I have many decades of driving under my belt, and I've never had a clogged transmission filter on any car, Mercedes or other.

This is essentially the approach I've been toying with....though perhaps with a longer interval and doing two drain and fills. Eventually, though, the magnet and pan need to be cleaned....at which time I'd change the filter.

andrewjtx · #27 10-21-2014, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

Some Hondas just had a coarse screen on the suction side of the pump that was not accessible unless the trans was split.

Honda's will run with a pint of sand in their transmissions. You just have to sell your soul and have it sucked out of you with a shop vac to drive one of their tin cans.

Zulfiqar · #28 10-21-2014, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shertex

This is essentially the approach I've been toying with....though perhaps with a longer interval and doing two drain and fills. Eventually, though, the magnet and pan need to be cleaned....at which time I'd change the filter.

if you are doing this with your 722.6 trans - it only uses a foam strainer type deal as a filter and is even easier to replace compared to the older 4 spd boxes. It just pulls out once you remove the sump. You also dont need the uber calibrated hand to tighten the sump bolts because it has limiters on it which prevent overtightening the sump.

however the 722.6 uses full synth lube which can work for a long time, I changed my e320 ATF and I was shocked to see the factory fiiter in there, I cut it open and the foam piece was a bit clogged but a wash in plain atf and a wring out completely cleaned the black stuff (seemed like powdered coal - got into my finger prints)

But if you want an easy approach to service - stick your engine oil sucker down the fill tube, suck the ATF out, install new ATF of same quality and quantity and call it done. It will remove some stuff out and will be beneficial as you get a fresh load of additives in the ATF charge

shertex · #29 10-21-2014, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulfiqar

however the 722.6 uses full synth lube which can work for a long time, I changed my e320 ATF and I was shocked to see the factory filter in there, I cut it open and the foam piece was a bit clogged but a wash in plain atf and a wring out completely cleaned the black stuff (seemed like powdered coal - got into my finger prints)

Just out of curiosity, how many miles on the car at the point? Had fluid ever been changed?