lost clutch pedal 1987 2.5DT - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dude99 · #31 03-03-2015, 06:16 PM

Quote:

then touch that finger to your tongue; you will easily taste the bitterness of the brake fluid.

Frankly this is just not a good idea.....

Walkenvol · #32 03-09-2015, 10:25 AM

Follow up for any future searchers....again, replacing the slave due to the tight space is a PITA and will require a variety of bent, stubby, crows foot, etc to make it happen....the master required removal of the pedal assembly for me to access the clips....4 nuts and 1 bolt - not too bad.

As for bleeding, I filled the resevoir for the brakes/clutch about 1/2 way and left it overnight. I returned the next day with some hose and attempted to pressure bleed from the slave cylinder end. It was tricky for me to open the bleed screw properly. Picture you've got a hose slipped over the end of the bleed screw trying to push fluid into it. When the bleed screw was too lose fluid would come out around the threads instead of pushing it back up to the resevoir. I messed around a bit pumping the clutch pedal and trying a couple of different way of pushing fluid up from below and to be honest I never recognized when I got it bled properly from the feel of the pedal? I finally thought I had exhausted all my pressure bleeding possibilities and took the car off the jack stands with the idea of trying the suggestion of starting it in gear and bouncing around the yard in hopes of the self bleeding. To my surprise, the clutch was properly bled when I went to start it? Its possible it bled itself overnight or one of my pressure bleeding attempts was successful, but I never noticed bubbles coming up in the resevoir?

Anyway, I'm back on the road. Lesson learned is whenever a manual transmission is removed on a W201, at a minimum replace the slave cylinder. Its not that pricey and is a total PITA to replace with the tranny installed.

Maxbumpo · #33 03-09-2015, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude99

Frankly this is just not a good idea.....

Because????

Drink a beer or a glass of wine, and you've done far more damage to yourself that a small drop of brake fluid on your tongue will ever do. Get a taste, spit it out, rinse your mouth with water and spit that out, done.

Live life a little!! "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself!"

Walkenvol · #34 06-23-2015, 11:26 AM

Reviving this as I'm having an intermitted problem with the clutch and am looking for some advise.

As I posted on 3/19, I tried several different bleeding processes and never really noticed anything to lead me to believe I had successfully bled the clutch system. When I went to try the "drive around the yard" suggestion I found the clutch working and assumed the bleeding to be a success.

I've been daily driving since and have encountered a couple of times where the clutch didn't appear to be fully disengaging after the car had set for 8 hours or more. For example, drive to work with normal clutch function. Go to drive home that evening and cluch isn't right...not like no clutch function at all, but not completely disengaging such that I'm having to find the right gear for the engine rpm's vs speed. Driving down the road in 4th or 5th gear and the clutch pedal can be depressed to allow the engine to rev higher? Could this be the clutch is "almost" disengaged and is slipping but won't disengage enough to allow the transmission to slow down for proper shifting? Drive 20 miles down the interstate then not using clutch then clutch works again? This happened again yesterday.

With the well documented troubles folks have had bleeding a W201 clutch, I'm thinking the logical cause of this would be air in the clutch hydrolic system and I'll make another attempt to bleed it again this evening. I bought the master and slave from PeachParts. It was a PITA to replace so I sure hope the new parts aren't defective. Is this what everyone would suggest?

I'm confused as to how the problem comes and goes. When I've had poorly bled brakes before, the pedal was always spongy until the air was bled out of the system. Since the clutch bleeds from the bottom up is it possible the problem could come and go like I've experienced or is it likely I've got clutch / pressure plate or transmission problems?

ah-kay · #35 06-23-2015, 11:31 AM

I lost the clutch when I was 90 miles from home after I thought I 'fixed' it by bleeding it. I drove home in 4th gear. I would recommend to change out the master and slave clutch cylinders and be done with it. No point messing around IMHO.

Stevo · #36 06-23-2015, 11:35 AM

How did you guys bleed the clutch?

winmutt · #37 06-23-2015, 11:42 AM

Is rubber hose bit between slave and master coated in rubber? I had one where the rubber had come off and was sucking air in... Wasnt wet either.

Walkenvol · #38 06-23-2015, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ah-kay

I lost the clutch when I was 90 miles from home after I thought I 'fixed' it by bleeding it. I drove home in 4th gear. I would recommend to change out the master and slave clutch cylinders and be done with it. No point messing around IMHO.

I replaced both on 3/19/15...have had this intermitted problem since which I'm trying to trouble shoot.

Walkenvol · #39 06-23-2015, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevo

How did you guys bleed the clutch?

Described my process in post #32...never had the ah ha moment where I thought I had it bled but it appeared to be working and has worked for 3 months except for the intermitted problem?

I'm going to try more bleeding this evening - I'm just concerned that its something besides the clutch hydrolics? Can't figure out in my head why the systoms would happen rarely then after a bit go away?

Maxbumpo · #40 06-23-2015, 02:36 PM

Like you, I'm suspicious that one of the new cylinders is leaking by. Check both for evidence of leakage, although it may be internal and not visible.

I don't think you have a problem with air getting back in, unless fluid is leaking out, which should be obvious by brake fluid somewhere on the outside of the circuit (master cylinder, line from master cylinder to slave cylinder, slave cylinder).

Maxbumpo · #41 06-23-2015, 02:36 PM

Also glad to hear that the "drive it around" method worked for you!

Walkenvol · #42 06-26-2015, 07:55 AM

Max - somehow I had it working prior to attempting the "drive around"...just never realized it.

Well, I finally got a chance to pick up some tubing to run between the passenger front caliper and the clutch slave cylinder bleed screws. Clear plastic tubing with a 3/16" id from my local Ace hardware store at $0.21 per foot did the trick (apx 4' required). The brake system forces fluid up from the bottom as needed to bleed the clutch system.

Problem is the replacement clutch master cylinder I purchased from our PeachParts store has failed after 3 months and apx 2K miles which are 70% highway so not a lot of shifting -ARG. What a PITA! Wonder if PeachParts will stand behind it? As much trouble as this is, wonder if I really want another one of their questionable stock as I don't enjoy changing out these parts?

Walkenvol · #43 06-27-2015, 07:07 PM

Guys, I need some help here.

Installed a replacement clutch master cylinder and attempted the caliper to clutch slave bleeding process. As the tubing I'm using is clear, I can see fluid moving into the slave bleed screw. I'm not 100% certain its proper bleed, but I'm unsure how to determine if the clutch hydrolic system is working and something mechanical is broken down inside the bell housing with the throw out bearing / clutch arm / pressure plate? There's no inspection plate to view in there and dropping the transmission is too much labor to try without knowing. Has anyone drilled a hole in the bell housing to view what's happening inside?

Thanks!

Stevo · #44 06-28-2015, 09:48 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdf--suwqw0

As mentioned before, the "brake caliper method" is full of pit falls, do yourself a favor and bleed the clutch the easy way and forget about drilling a peek hole.

Walkenvol · #45 06-29-2015, 11:03 AM

Stevo - I tried to bleed again with your suggestion but instead of using an oil can I used a really large syringe so I could see exactly what I was forcing up from the bottom. Also, I took the bleed screw completely out and put some teflon tape around the outer threads to eliminate the fluid being forced out the threads (definate improvement) when I was pushing it up through the system from the bottom. I emptied the brake resevoir and then forced enough fluid up from below through the slave cylinder to fill the brake fluid resevior. No way it couldn't bled right? Still dragging clutch like the system wasn't properly bled - ARG!

Well, ended up dropping the transmission as I figured something was amiss with the clutch arm or pressure plate and found a broken spring on the clutch plate itself? The spring was broken into 3 pieces and floating around and I guess a piece would occationally wedge against the clutch disc and cause my symtoms? Notice in the picture the spring pieces are laying on the clutch .

Anyway, I now need a new clutch disc after replacing a funcitoning clutch master cylinder (anybody need a very slightly used one at a deeply discounted price?) and 3 wasted attempts to bleed the clutch system. So my question is which clutch discs should I buy? I've got an '87 2.5 turbo that I used an '84 190E gaser as a donor for the manual transmission, flywheel, clutch and PP. The 190E clutch disc is apx 8.5" across and the 190D wit the 2.2 is apx 8" across. Logically I'd want to stick with the 8.5" disc but I'm wondering if the hub of the 2.2 diesel is more robust vs the 2.0 liter gasser? Anybody know? Am I likely to destroy the hub springs if I replace with another 190E clutch? I didn't buy a new clutch disc 30K back when I did this swap, instead I had the existing clutch from the donor car relined at a local clutch shop.