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  #16  
Old 03-06-2015, 02:56 PM
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cho cho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillGrissom View Post
If you have a 1984-85 engine, with rack sensor on the IP, you will find getting at one of the 3 nuts very challenging.
he has M style pump (I never saw sensor on M)...much much easier to replace than MW. (no oil filter removal at all)

.

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  #17  
Old 05-25-2015, 08:35 PM
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Before I find out the tool I was about to order is for some reason not quite right for locking my '83 300SD pump (they call out "300D" but not "300SD") - can anyone verify? They cite "OEM 601 589 0521 00" which has a lot more digits than the one that Diesel911 mentioned here and there (601-521). Looks identical: Laser 5974 Bosch In-Line Diesel Fuel Pump Timing Pin for M B 601 589 0521 00 | eBay

I intend to pull my pump only long enough to replace the gasket with something reasonably durable - minutes, that is. The only other IP I've had out (on an unrelated engine) tended to 'spring itself' to the next low point on the IP's cam, so in that case, without being able to put my eyes on the timing marks on the gears (that requires removal of the large timing-cover), I would not be able to simply be careful not to rotate the driven gear, change a gasket, and then slide it back into place, since it would spring itself to some new orientation. Does this pump exhibit the same behavior? Or is it possible to pull it out in any position, change the gasket, and slip it back in the same position? Or just use the "in-a-pinch" method with a lug bolt to lock it in that orientation? (Does tightening a substitute bolt in that position potentially damage something if the IP isn't rotated to the right orientation?)

I haven't been able to find a wiki or complete guide for this process - anyone?

--Dave
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  #18  
Old 04-25-2020, 01:28 PM
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Apologies for reviving an old thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
The other post being said some of the Models older then My 1984, I can't remember what dates have The Mark on the Fuel Injection Pump Bearing Caps marked wrong and the timing proceedure is different.

You need to say what year and model you have and if you think it has the original fuel injection pump.

Notice the correctly marked Fuel Injection Pump has the mark on the Bering Cap almost inline with one of the Screws. The incorrecly marked one has the line on the Bearing Cap away from the Screw.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cho View Post
pump with third bosch model number 251


.
Please explain this number to me. Where do I look for it?

My 1982 n/a engine with MW pump (South African spec) feels lethargic, and I believe this could be the cause.
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  #19  
Old 04-25-2020, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlaneCrazy View Post
Apologies for reviving an old thread





Please explain this number to me. Where do I look for it?

My 1982 n/a engine with MW pump (South African spec) feels lethargic, and I believe this could be the cause.
I never knew what pump numbers or years had the mis-mark issues. I believe I read it in the factory service manual but that would be for US models.

In the attached diagram a correctly marked pump is shown the timing mark on the bearing cap lines up with the centerline of the Bearing Cap Screw (I am going to say at 10 o'clock position). On the mis-marked bearing cap the mark on the Bearing Cap is past the center line of the screw and at about 11 o'clock position.

The only member I can recall that had a pump mis-marked when he installed it he had obvious issues that could not be ignored. In your cease it sounds like you are running too good.
I think you ought to just try drip demining in the normal manner.

Stay away from the 13mm nuts on each side of the Delivery Valve holders.

Here is what is written in the manual. On Bosch Production Code "251" (November 1982) the mark for begin of delivery may be applied to the wrong spot on the bearing cap.
I have no idea where the production code appears on the Tag of the Fuel Injection Pump.
Attached Thumbnails
removing injector pump OM617-fuel-injection-pump-timing-mark-correct-lined-up-center-screw-jun-14.jpg   removing injector pump OM617-incorrectly-marked-front-bearing-cap-fuel-injection-pump.jpg  
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  #20  
Old 04-25-2020, 05:10 PM
cfh cfh is offline
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A thread about setting the IP in 615/616 engines says to line up the groove on the IP 2 teeth before top dead center and to have the crank timing set at 45 degrees BTDC. I tried that on my car and it worked. I believe my engine is from ‘83 - so won’t take the locking pin - and every time I tried to install the IP at 24 degrees and right on the notch (rather than 2 teeth off) it would always skip. I think 45 degrees and two teeth before the notch takes that skip into account and according to that thread, it was the method specified in the FSM for those engines. That thread is here: W115/OM616 Injection Pump Installation and Timing How To.
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  #21  
Old 04-26-2020, 03:13 AM
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So, basically I have to remove the pump and compare it to these pictures? That's what I was trying to avoid. Thanks, though.
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1986 W123 200, OM617 NA engine, 5-speed manual, rev counter
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  #22  
Old 04-26-2020, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlaneCrazy View Post
So, basically I have to remove the pump and compare it to these pictures? That's what I was trying to avoid. Thanks, though.
"On Bosch Production Code "251" (November 1982) the mark for begin of delivery may be applied to the wrong spot on the bearing cap." Even if your Fuel Injection Pump had the code 251 an unknown number of them had the wrongly marked bearing cap.
That means you could pull off your pump and find out it is marked correctly.

Why I mentioned to do the drip timing. Because you don't have to pull the pump off for that.
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  #23  
Old 04-26-2020, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfh View Post
A thread about setting the IP in 615/616 engines says to line up the groove on the IP 2 teeth before top dead center and to have the crank timing set at 45 degrees BTDC. I tried that on my car and it worked. I believe my engine is from ‘83 - so won’t take the locking pin - and every time I tried to install the IP at 24 degrees and right on the notch (rather than 2 teeth off) it would always skip. I think 45 degrees and two teeth before the notch takes that skip into account and according to that thread, it was the method specified in the FSM for those engines. That thread is here: W115/OM616 Injection Pump Installation and Timing How To.
I briefly looked at the thread and don't know why the author deviated from the factory method.
Before you remove the Fuel Injection Pump you look down at the degree pointer and turn the engine in the direction of normal rotation and line up on 24 degrees (for most applications) before top dead center on the compression stroke.
You will know if you are on the compression stroke by looking at the Camshaft lobes of #1 in which the tips of the lobs will point upwards in a "V" shape.
You remove the Fuel injection Pump and leave the Engine alone no rotation of the engine.

When it comes time to put the Fuel Injection Pump back on you look at the drive end of the fuel injection pump and if the bearing cap is marked normally you line up the flat area (2 splines missing) with the mark and carefully stick the fuel injection pump in with the studs in the middle of the Kidney slots on the Fuel Injection pump.

If the bearing cap is wrongly marked you would line up the flat spot with the mark and turn the drive shaft of the pump counter clockwise 3 teeth and line up that third tooth with the line on the bearing cap. If you look close you can see that in the diagram in my other post of the wrongly marked bearing camp.
And carefully stick the fuel injection pump in with the studs in the middle of the Kidney slots on the Fuel Injection pump.
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  #24  
Old 04-26-2020, 02:14 PM
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Note if you remove the fuel injection pump there is a brace at the bottom rear of the fuel injection pump which is easier to see if you look from under the Car.

Removing one or more of the Oil Cooler Hoses allows more room to access the back bottom of the Fuel Injection Pump.
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  #25  
Old 04-26-2020, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
I briefly looked at the thread and don't know why the author deviated from the factory method.
Hey Diesel911 (and anyone else who's interested), I've got the M-B chassis book for W115 (printed June '69), and that is the prescribed method for the pneumatically governed pump on OM615. I followed that method when installing the pump in my '74 with OM616.916, which is pretty much the same setup, and it worked fine. Not sure if it's applicable to the later engines with later style IPs, but it is legit for the earlier stuff.

Rock on!
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  #26  
Old 04-26-2020, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmog220d View Post
Hey Diesel911 (and anyone else who's interested), I've got the M-B chassis book for W115 (printed June '69), and that is the prescribed method for the pneumatically governed pump on OM615. I followed that method when installing the pump in my '74 with OM616.916, which is pretty much the same setup, and it worked fine. Not sure if it's applicable to the later engines with later style IPs, but it is legit for the earlier stuff.

Rock on!
Yes it is entirely logical to use the correct service manual instructions for the year and model you are working on.
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  #27  
Old 04-27-2020, 12:40 AM
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Concerning removing an MW Fuel Injection Pump form a 617.952 with out removing the Oil Filter Housing it can be done. I saw it at a junk yard.
The Fuel Injection Pump was gone and the Oil Filter was not disturbed. What I found laying next to the Car was the Vacuum Shutoff had been removed (and was no good). Removing the Vacuum Shutoff allow you to move the Fuel Injection Pump to the rear more.
I can't remember what you need to do with the Throttle Return Spring.

Removing the Oil Cooler Line at the Oil Filter Housing allows you to get at that rear bottom bolt.

Don't remember exactly what I did in the below thread: Fuel Injection Pump Removal with the Oil Filter still on 617.952

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