Pulling to Right due to Springs/Suspension? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Adriel · #1 10-10-2015, 06:08 PM

Had two front tires quickly go, thank God that happened to notice the cord hanging out the inner edge due to having to crank the wheels over and parking.

Anyway, go across the street and get an alignment. I am told now instead of pulling to the right, steers strait. I was lied to, because no way was it strait, especially breaking. Lane change, anyone? So, go back and told either it is the springs/suspension or radial pull, and to go back to the tire shop (Discount, which is why went to their recommended alignment shop across the street). Discount does a favor, no waiting in line, and put the right front tire, only one that is worn, on the rear. It fixes the breaking and will steer fairly strait without holding onto the wheel. However the steering wheel is turned slightly right.

I am so burned out after spending five hours getting two tires replaced and alignment...

So, after 307,000 miles, time to change the springs? Only thing not replaced on the front suspension. I have all four, plus components to rebuild the rear suspension.

Thank y'all for your help!

t walgamuth · #2 10-10-2015, 06:26 PM

Ok, a little confusing. did you get new tires on front? before that were both worn on the inside? If so it indicates either too much negative camber, or too much toe out. Worn ball joints could be the problem also. Sounds like your alignment shop might not know what to do with a benz.

Adriel · #3 10-10-2015, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Ok, a little confusing. did you get new tires on front? before that were both worn on the inside? If so it indicates either too much negative camber, or too much toe out. Worn ball joints could be the problem also. Sounds like your alignment shop might not know what to do with a benz.

Oh! Thank you so very much!

Just realized forgot the attachment...

At first, per the law, new tires have to go on the rear. So, the spare went front left and the rear broken in tire went on the right front. After alignment, the spare went rear left and the broken in tire went rear right.

Upper ball joints are fairly new, say less than 20,000 miles. If need be, can dig around and see if I can find the papers (I am over organized...).

Junkman · #4 10-10-2015, 07:17 PM

I recently replaced everything except tie rods which were good and my SD steers like new. I had to put it on the alignment machine twice before they got it good enough. It is difficult for those chain places to get things right, the local indy doesn't have a machine and the stealer is an hr away and I don't like them.

See whether they will push on the tires and measure the effect on toe. None of these places have a spreader bar. I've read some say it isn't needed. Others swear it is. I've thought of fabbing one from one of the bars used to secure loads in a truck but don't know that the shop could be made to use it. They think an owner by definition knows nothing even though they are the ones working for slightly more than minimum wage.

The 1st settings would cause wear. The after settings look better. I can't comment on springs. I didn't change mine but am only at 250,000 and your mileage is more. Does the alignment shop guarantee that your tires won't wear?

A brake pull is frequently the front brake system opposite the the pull. ie pulls right, suspect something keeping left caliper from braking as much as the right. Are the pads worn evenly?

Adriel · #5 10-10-2015, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junkman

I recently replaced everything except tie rods which were good and my SD steers like new. I had to put it on the alignment machine twice before they got it good enough. It is difficult for those chain places to get things right, the local indy doesn't have a machine and the stealer is an hr away and I don't like them.

See whether they will push on the tires and measure the effect on toe. None of these places have a spreader bar. I've read some say it isn't needed. Others swear it is. I've thought of fabbing one from one of the bars used to secure loads in a truck but don't know that the shop could be made to use it. They think an owner by definition knows nothing even though they are the ones working for slightly more than minimum wage.

The 1st settings would cause wear. The after settings look better. I can't comment on springs. I didn't change mine but am only at 250,000 and your mileage is more. Does the alignment shop guarantee that your tires won't wear?

A brake pull is frequently the front brake system opposite the the pull. ie pulls right, suspect something keeping left caliper from braking as much as the right. Are the pads worn evenly?

There is a shop that the only M.B. independent uses, however, good 20 or so miles away and didn't want any issues. If I did replace the springs, find out who it is, as so far best alignment and do more Mercedes since Bud sends them to their shop.

Too late now... But, very good to know in the future.

The tire shop basically warrants excessive wear, so long as the alignment is good. Alignment said good alignment and no issues. Both shops friends, so think I am set. Now know to keep an eye out. Plus, said if came in for air pressure every month, they keep track of tread depth, so when the wear is matching the rear, then will rotate. If still pulling, said consider radial pull.

t walgamuth · #6 10-10-2015, 09:04 PM

Radial pull? Sounds like urban legend from the seventies!

Adriel · #7 10-10-2015, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Radial pull? Sounds like urban legend from the seventies!

Thank you so very much for the reply!

Really? Why?

AGCO Automotive Repair Service - Baton Rouge, LA - Detailed Auto Topics - Tire Conicity and Radial Pull

So then right in saying springs?

cooljjay · #8 10-10-2015, 09:36 PM

Inner tire wear, can be caused by the upper control arms and/or the firewall torsion/sway bar bushings....Have you ever had the upper control arms replaced? It could be a lot on the front end or just one thing...Usually the springs won't cause tire wear....If these shops were good, they would have told you what component was bad...switching a tire to the rear....just makes the rear tire wear to the metal....then you'll need two new tires...

mannys9130 · #9 10-10-2015, 09:45 PM

A proper alignment is key. Most shops don't have the spreader bar and don't use the steering box lock bolt tovlock the box in the straight dead ahead position. I had this issue with mine.

Wheel being off center is just a toe alignment. The other wear is indicative of other things. Changing lanes when braking is usually a caliper that's stuck.

Adriel · #10 10-11-2015, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooljjay

Inner tire wear, can be caused by the upper control arms and/or the firewall torsion/sway bar bushings....Have you ever had the upper control arms replaced? It could be a lot on the front end or just one thing...Usually the springs won't cause tire wear....If these shops were good, they would have told you what component was bad...switching a tire to the rear....just makes the rear tire wear to the metal....then you'll need two new tires...

Wrote a big long post...

Jason, glad to see we are back to talking and thank you so very much for the post!

Don't follow, as alignment is alright now. Seems you are not understanding what I have written and attached.

Shouldn't wear since rear alignment better than front.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannys9130

A proper alignment is key. Most shops don't have the spreader bar and don't use the steering box lock bolt tovlock the box in the straight dead ahead position. I had this issue with mine.

Wheel being off center is just a toe alignment. The other wear is indicative of other things. Changing lanes when braking is usually a caliper that's stuck.

Manny, thank you so very much for the reply!

Were you able to see the attachment?

Don't recall them using a spreader. How would I, one who is socially inept, ask them to fix the steering so steers strait, by using the spreader and the lock?

Can I fight the charge, since didn't get what I paid for?

Guess in the future need to make the trip out to the specialty shop.

cooljjay · #11 10-11-2015, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adriel

Wrote a big long post...

Jason, glad to see we are back to talking and thank you so very much for the post!

Don't follow, as alignment is alright now. Seems you are not understanding what I have written and attached.

Shouldn't wear since rear alignment better than front.

What I was trying to get at, is that no matter how much you pay nor how great the shop is at alignments. An alignment cannot take care of rotten rubber bushings....

Upper control arms have a bushing and a ball joint that go bad, front sway bar has 6 bushings that can go bad, lower control arm has one bushing and one ball joint that can go bad, there are three tie rods that can go bad, there is a guide rod mount and bushing that can go bad...Sure I am missing another one or two....

Anyways any combinations of these can and will cause tire wear and no alignment or bar will fix them....

These cars are old and despite the fact a few of us have really rare W123's that seem to wear worse then the other handfuls people own....It is fact on any car...

mannys9130 · #12 10-11-2015, 01:54 AM

You're welcome Adriel. I would honestly try the diplomatic approach first. Call the shop and explain that you've done some research and you've come to the conclusion that the car requires a spreader bar to do the alignment properly. The steering box lock bolt helps the tech get the steering straight on, because it physically locks the box in the dead center of its travel. You can guess where that is and get close, but you'll end up doing it again and again moving the tie rods a few turns in one direction until you end up with a perfect center wheel and no pulling.

The only way to get these cars aligned correctly is by using those two tools. The dealer will have them, but they are more expensive of course. I personally called around and asked "Do you have a spreader bar" until I found a shop that said "Yes we do." I asked if they use it regularly and could align a 190D. He said to bring it in so he could be sure, and that he uses the bar occasionally. I would NOT expect anyone but an Indy to have the box lock bolt.

Start there, but if it's a chain shop you might just end up cutting your losses and going to a place that can do it right. Of course living with the slightly crooked wheel is also a possibility if the odd wear stops.

t walgamuth · #13 10-11-2015, 07:07 AM

I would be skeptical of the idea that brand new tires are conical.

Adriel · #14 10-11-2015, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooljjay

What I was trying to get at, is that no matter how much you pay nor how great the shop is at alignments. An alignment cannot take care of rotten rubber bushings....

Upper control arms have a bushing and a ball joint that go bad, front sway bar has 6 bushings that can go bad, lower control arm has one bushing and one ball joint that can go bad, there are three tie rods that can go bad, there is a guide rod mount and bushing that can go bad...Sure I am missing another one or two....

Anyways any combinations of these can and will cause tire wear and no alignment or bar will fix them....

These cars are old and despite the fact a few of us have really rare W123's that seem to wear worse then the other handfuls people own....It is fact on any car...

Jason, thank you so very much for the reply!

Forgot about the guide rod mounts. Not sure if replaced or the lower ball joints, but Tram or I have replaced everything else, except springs, thus why considering. Sent a letter to Tram and hopefully get back. Will see about checking myself when rested (up for a snack).

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannys9130

You're welcome Adriel. I would honestly try the diplomatic approach first. Call the shop and explain that you've done some research and you've come to the conclusion that the car requires a spreader bar to do the alignment properly. The steering box lock bolt helps the tech get the steering straight on, because it physically locks the box in the dead center of its travel. You can guess where that is and get close, but you'll end up doing it again and again moving the tie rods a few turns in one direction until you end up with a perfect center wheel and no pulling.

The only way to get these cars aligned correctly is by using those two tools. The dealer will have them, but they are more expensive of course. I personally called around and asked "Do you have a spreader bar" until I found a shop that said "Yes we do." I asked if they use it regularly and could align a 190D. He said to bring it in so he could be sure, and that he uses the bar occasionally. I would NOT expect anyone but an Indy to have the box lock bolt.

Start there, but if it's a chain shop you might just end up cutting your losses and going to a place that can do it right. Of course living with the slightly crooked wheel is also a possibility if the odd wear stops.

Manny, thank you so very much!

Actually, it be easier just to go down there. However, don't think open on Sunday.

Okay, it was getting towards lunch, so since was lied to about being strait, bet just lazy and didn't want to bother, so sent me off to Discount. Guess then will first be diplomatic, but if not working, then will say not leaving until corrected. If don't act in timely manner, can always call the police and ask for diplomatic help (done that twice and really works).

The only independent up here uses a shop and did a great alignment. But, don't know their name and didn't want to drive all those miles wearing the edge. So, could say worth the $50 and cut loss. Just have to decide how valuable my time is.

If the guide rods need doing, give me reason to just have Bud do it (despite high prices) and then it go off to the good shop. However, leave me stranded, but with my University load and being overwhelmed, be better.

So now is figuring out if those guide rod mounts are good. Any tips or tricks?

Mxfrank · #15 10-11-2015, 11:47 AM

The only thing that needs to be said is that your best tires should always be on the rear. If the tires arent good enough for the front, you shouldnt use them at all.