Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-21-2016, 12:05 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 49
Cool w123 "heavy duty" / African market coil spring part numbers

I want to lift my 300TD, but have found very little in the way of specific information from people who have actually done it. Blurg's sweet "Saharagelber" adventure 300TD apparently uses the heavy duty coil springs MB equipped the w123.193 with in African markets, and as you can see has a very nice lift compared to stock:



In my research, most of what I've found is speculation, or threads in which w123 sedan owners have simply swapped in w116 or w126 springs, but never specific information on the specific part numbers of heavy duty coil springs.

Technical information I have found so far:
- 32-010 from the w123 factory service manual about the permissible spring combinations for the w123 chassis
- 32-250 from the w123 FSM with physical specifications for each coil spring
- 32-220 "adjustment of the front springs" and 32-240 "adjustment of the rear springs", each referenced in 32-250 with spring shim information

Relevant supplemental information:
- 32-200 and 32-230 on the removal and installation of the front and rear springs, respectively

I put the data from 32-250 into an excel spreadsheet to generate some napkin math on relative ride height per corner based on the length of each spring under load. My calculations in this screenshot assume 1,000 pounds per corner, which is pretty conservative.



The green highlighted part numbers correspond to the stated "heavy duty" part numbers for 123.193s with self-leveling rear suspension such as mine and Blurg's. Of those, it seems p/n 123 321 41 04 for the front and 123 324 35 04 for the rear provide the tallest ride height. 123 321 45 04 for the front is even taller, due to being a stiffer spring, but it's not mentioned in 32-010 so its specific application is unclear.

I will most likely end up installing 123 321 45 04 and 123 324 35 04 with the thickest spring pads and will be sure to post before and after pictures when I do.

Let me know if I messed up in my research or calculations somehow!

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-21-2016, 12:40 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 7,534
Forces seen by the spring are not the same as the tire contact patch as there is leverage involved.

Are you looking for height alone or height + stiffer spring?

If just height, measure spring length at stock ride height. ( Or measure between the lower control arm and body _inline_ with the spring ) Jack up the body until you get the desired ride height and pull the same measurement again. The change in height is the thickness of the spacer you need to make.

This spacer can be fixed, a sleeve with washers you stack to adjust height or a threaded spacer ( AKA "hidden adjuster" used by oval track cars ) .

If you want stiffness, go directly to aftermarket weight jacks and universal aftermarket springs as this will be less fussy than chasing stock stuff and possible less expensive as there are many used springs out there.

See my posts in the thread below, ignore what the original poster has to say as he was insistent on ignoring my experience.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/performance-paddock/342744-w123-racing-setup-serious-questions-within.html
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-21-2016, 01:19 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
Forces seen by the spring are not the same as the tire contact patch as there is leverage involved.
Right. That's why I called it "napkin math" and why there are not units involved or even considerations for actual ground clearance, etc: I just wanted to have some idea, ceteris paribus, of relative ride height between spring setups.

I didn't consider the leverage aspect. I will measure the suspension geometry when I put the car on the lift this week and take it into consideration. I'm not convinced it will affect the result of the napkin math, since it's mostly arbitrary and relative, but if it changes the results I'll be sure to edit the OP.

Quote:
If you want stiffness, go directly to aftermarket weight jacks and universal aftermarket springs as this will be less fussy than chasing stock stuff and possible less expensive as there are many used springs out there.
That's something I'm also considering. I'm not a MB purist. I just thought I would share my findings w/r/t the heavy duty springs sold in African markets, since I could not find a thread on the subject with the information I was looking for, despite it being a question which comes up frequently on these boards.

Quote:
See my posts in the thread below, ignore what the original poster has to say as he was insistent on ignoring my experience.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/performance-paddock/342744-w123-racing-setup-serious-questions-within.html
Thanks for the link.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-21-2016, 02:08 PM
mike-81-240d's Avatar
I like coffee
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 872
Something to consider is if you can bring the alignment back into factory spec at the increased ride height. I raised the rear of my wagon past stock a few times for giggles with the SLS sensing rod, and you start to get some positive camber. As far as I know the rear end is unalignable until you add a kmac kit.
__________________
1981 300TD 4 speed manual
Euro bumpers, zender valance and skirts, H&R springs, billy HD's, leveled sls, real AMG Pentas 16x8 et11, vdo boost/egt gauges intergrated into ash tray, eurolights, led 3rd brake light
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-16-2019, 07:58 AM
Whimsical & unfaithful
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Norselands
Posts: 5
Hi all,

New life in the thread...

Yeah Mike, the camber is definately off and will wear the tyres wrong.
I had the same "Saharagelber" as an example, since I had Several T's and no money for a 4x4.

I installed heavy duty shocks and it lifted the car in the front to the right height with springs from a turbodiesel. Not sure if those are heavier than the NA diesel I have, but the result was good. I have to mention that the 300TD i have has a 100kg extra loading capacity and those old fashioned large tyres ( 185 R 15 it is?)

I set the rear as high as I could to match the front. Looked good from the side, but the camber in the rear was off.
I decided to keep it that way and went through a set of tyres in one summer. Took the dirt roads here well, but handling on asfalt was not as good as I wished for.
Now I am looking to get it down again to maybe get a better handling car for road use.

I was unfaithful with a landcruiser and married her... The roads are a challenge here in the Norselands in wintertime.
The old 300TD will be a summertime extra. Also to be able to repair the cruiser myself without the stress of not having a ride.

I never read anything about the camber trouble following the Saharagelber. Thought it would be a good thing mentioning it on this great forum.

Jan.

Last edited by de Gier; 04-16-2019 at 08:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-18-2019, 09:00 AM
moon161's Avatar
Formerly of Car Hell
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 2,054
I've thought about using a spacer above the rear diff mount to lower the differential and rear subframe and effect a rear lift without adverse camber. Has anyone tried this?
__________________
CC: NSA

All things are burning, know this and be released.

82 Benz 240 D, Kuan Yin
12 Ford Escape 4wd

You're four times
It's hard to
more likely to
concentrate on
have an accident
two things
when you're on
at the same time.
a cell phone.


www.kiva.org It's not like there's anything wrong with feeling good, is there?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-18-2019, 02:06 PM
Simpler=Better's Avatar
Ham Shanker
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 2,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by moon161 View Post
I've thought about using a spacer above the rear diff mount to lower the differential and rear subframe and effect a rear lift without adverse camber. Has anyone tried this?
That was always my plan for a lifted w123.

way back when I had a 1" cheapo spacer under my rear coils. It lifted the car 1.5-2", it was great. Yeah the tires wore wrong, but that was the least of the car's worries.
__________________
$60 OM617 Blank Exhaust Flanges
$110 OM606 Blank Exhaust Flanges
No merc at the moment
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-22-2019, 06:10 AM
Whimsical & unfaithful
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Norselands
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike-81-240d View Post
As far as I know the rear end is unalignable until you add a kmac kit.
Looked at those Kmac bushings. They look good. I would definitely check those out if I will keep the lift.
At this moment the rutty spring roads are pretty terrible.

I can keep the rear a little low for the tires' sake but I doubt this is good for handling.
Another bloke on the forum was looking specifically for the "mooching basking shark"-look with raised front and low back...

See if I can post a pic soon. **** to do.

Tally ho.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-22-2019, 05:18 PM
Whimsical & unfaithful
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Norselands
Posts: 5
1984 300TD with some cm lift and the everyday dirt.
w123 "heavy duty" / African market coil spring part numbers-300-td.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-16-2020, 04:11 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 46
So what have you guys ended up doing for lift on the W123? does anyone have any further info on what they have done? Thanks!

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page