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  #16  
Old 04-07-2016, 07:57 AM
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The 190D 2.5turbo was never made for North America in a 5-speed, not sure it was anywhere. It was only built MY 1987.

At the time, Mercedes felt (as did Audi) that the turbo engines had so much turbo lag that it would not be civilized mated to a manual transmission so they only built them with automatics.

The automatic with its torque converter in the '87 190D 2.5turbo would easily spin the tires in the wet (annoyingly easily at times), and really could have used LSD. A tame ALDA setting will help but the sub-2000rpm boost rush tends to make it a bit squirrelly in the wet. With a clutch, I would think that it would reward the technique of rolling on the power as you release the clutch to keep the engine out of the full-boost range until fully engaged. With the 2.65:1 it should be fine, it is a torquey little beast. Even though a turbo engine, with a rich ALDA it is also a 2.5L diesel in a car that at 2800lbs weighs less than a modern Jetta.
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  #17  
Old 04-07-2016, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymog View Post
The 190D 2.5turbo was never made for North America in a 5-speed, not sure it was anywhere. It was only built MY 1987.

At the time, Mercedes felt (as did Audi) that the turbo engines had so much turbo lag that it would not be civilized mated to a manual transmission so they only built them with automatics.

The automatic with its torque converter in the '87 190D 2.5turbo would easily spin the tires in the wet (annoyingly easily at times), and really could have used LSD. A tame ALDA setting will help but the sub-2000rpm boost rush tends to make it a bit squirrelly in the wet. With a clutch, I would think that it would reward the technique of rolling on the power as you release the clutch to keep the engine out of the full-boost range until fully engaged. With the 2.65:1 it should be fine, it is a torquey little beast. Even though a turbo engine, with a rich ALDA it is also a 2.5L diesel in a car that at 2800lbs weighs less than a modern Jetta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
That jump in ratios does not seem out of line to me. Getting the car moving with a torque converter is much easier than with the clutch.

The 346 was used in the 123 300D na. It'll make a sweet ratio for taking off with the stick. I'd prolly go with the 307 though.
According to this data the 5 speed non turbo OM602 had the 3.64 final drive whilst the automatic version (of the NON turbo) was 3.07

W201-190D25-2-Getriebe/en

The turbo OM602 specs are here =>

W201-190D25T-2-Getriebe/en

5 speed has 3.46

Automatic 2.65

Crazy
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
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  #18  
Old 04-07-2016, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
That's a crazy jump for the 2.5 turbo diesel between 5 speed manual and automatic - perhaps that needs to be checked?

I'm interested in finding out which differential needs the shorter axle lengths as the bigger differentials seem to keep themselves in better shape and don't whine so quickly as the small bodied ones...
Hmm... I was unaware the manual trans ever sold on the turbo diesel...
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #19  
Old 04-07-2016, 11:21 AM
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Apparently it was, in Germany/western Europe, but never in North America.

However, it appears that the final gearing is nearly the same (3.46:1 x .75:1 overdrive = 2.6:1), which would be disappointing to not have a higher ratio for highway travel, I always felt that my 190Dt needed another gear, ... I'd go with the 2.65:1 and see how you like it. Again, if you live in an area where you need to start on a hill regularly, and/or travel with a heavy load, I can see the need for lower gearing. For most people however, the taller gears would be a benefit. Maybe a 3.07:1 would make a happy medium if you have one around.

Another way to look at it is: how do you like the performance of your 5-speed now? Can you see driving it with only 75% of the torque at launch? If so, you are looking at the 2.65:1. Would you give up this launch (until boost) for taller highway gears?
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  #20  
Old 04-07-2016, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
Hmm... I was unaware the manual trans ever sold on the turbo diesel...
See post #17 my good man - follow the links
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!

Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #21  
Old 04-07-2016, 04:29 PM
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I have a 2.88 and instrument cluster for the 123 chassis that I'd sell reasonably.
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  #22  
Old 04-07-2016, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I have a 2.88 and instrument cluster for the 123 chassis that I'd sell reasonably.
Is this posted for me? It won't fit a w201... and I've got two for those anyway...
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #23  
Old 04-07-2016, 11:11 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Whomever.
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Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins& six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I am finishing a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual....I also have a Lotus 7 replica autocrosser with a modified K20 Acura engine.
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  #24  
Old 04-08-2016, 01:22 AM
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I would tend to agree that an auto would be OK with the listed gearing because the torque converter multiplies torque at take off.

I can't really decide in my mind what a 2.5 turbo would drive like, but I know my 1st gear is so short that I can't get more than 10-15 feet without needing to shift. It would be nicer to have a little bit more time, but with the AC on take offs are difficult.
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'85 190D 2.2 Auto *Cali* (Blue/Blue) *sold*
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  #25  
Old 04-08-2016, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannys9130 View Post
I would tend to agree that an auto would be OK with the listed gearing because the torque converter multiplies torque at take off.

I can't really decide in my mind what a 2.5 turbo would drive like, but I know my 1st gear is so short that I can't get more than 10-15 feet without needing to shift. It would be nicer to have a little bit more time, but with the AC on take offs are difficult.
I have a 2.0 litre M102 and a 3.46 differential with a 717.412 five speed and first gear gets used all the time. It is good for about 30 kph with out making the engine scream.
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!

Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #26  
Old 04-08-2016, 05:05 AM
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I'd still like to know about the larger case differentials for the W201 if any one has information about that...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!

Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-08-2016, 08:52 AM
vstech's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannys9130 View Post
I would tend to agree that an auto would be OK with the listed gearing because the torque converter multiplies torque at take off.

I can't really decide in my mind what a 2.5 turbo would drive like, but I know my 1st gear is so short that I can't get more than 10-15 feet without needing to shift. It would be nicer to have a little bit more time, but with the AC on take offs are difficult.
judging by my 2.5 turbo and my na 5 Speed, I can get around 20MPG in first, with its 3.46 diff.
The 3.07 from the gasser diff should significantly bump that over 25, and drop my 75 mph cruise speed rpms below 2500...

No major hill starts around here. Turbo power acceleration is far more needed...
__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #28  
Old 04-08-2016, 12:37 PM
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Ignorance is a disease
 
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Mercedes manual transmissions | Mercedes-Benz turbo

This lists the gear ratios for various transmissions. Should also be useful here.

The 717.410 is what the 190D 2.2 came with. 1st is 4.23:1 on the .410 trans. I use it, because otherwise it would require a lot of clutch slipping for a 2nd gear start. Downshifting into 1st isn't possible unless you're at a crawling speed like in a parking lot. It's a granny gear.
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'84 190D 2.2 5MT (Red/Palomino) Current car. Love it!
'85 190D 2.2 Auto *Cali* (Blue/Blue) *sold*
http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/302601.png
http://i959.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/sideview.png
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  #29  
Old 04-08-2016, 03:23 PM
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I rode in a 190D turbo 5 speed. Car was completely worn out but it was fairly quick. No clue on what transmission they used or what diff. My dad liked the car but it was in too rough shape to warrant buying.
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