Yes, it really is a whale of a car. And you sure do feel safe and snug in it and it moves out more like a Jetta than a 2 ton diesel.its very quiet and definitely a driving experience ..

Now I have a Volvo 940 turbo and a 87 and 85 300D and one of them has to go. The Volvo is for experimentation with Turbo Boosting and wild cams since its engine is fairly simple..and I guess the 87 300D will be my everyday car..
But how do you part with a W123 that has served you so faithfully, both as job therapy and as a daily driver--

Believe me I am not sentimental, I realize in two decades or less all Cars will be gone--everytime I see a traffic jam with a thousand cars packed into a mile of freeway,each idling away wastefully, each with one driver and no passengers, I muse that the human race will disappear if we continue to live like this...

But it will be hard to see my w123 go..

bump

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DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

Well since it has been bumped I will revisit.

I have not reread my original post, but I think that I probably failed to point out that I was comparing a manual 240D to the 124. If you were to compare a 300D turbo with all the electric bells and whistles to the 124 of which ALL US models have a full load of bells and whistles, the comparison would be more of an oranges to oranges comparison.

My mindset when I wrote the original post OTOH was comparing a manual everything 240D to my power everything 300E, but I called it 123 vs 124. If I could change the thread title it would be more correct as: "Manual 240D = Economy Versus Power Everything 300E = Expensive."

Have a great day,

OK, well I have both models and with about the same mileage on each one. In regards to sub-systems, the 123 is better. A good example is the power windows system. The 123 has the old type geared scissor lift with a good sized motor. The 124's run a cheap cable and pulley system with a puney motor, much like a Japanese or Korean made car made these days. Sure it saves weight but they wear out quickly to the point where they slugishly open and close even well lubricated. Sunroofs are another sore spot on the 124. It has another poorly made system that uses flimsy sheetmetal parts in the rails and also a puney motor. Most of the 124's I see for sale in the Portland area mention a non-op sunroof. There's lots more cheap plastic in the interior in my 87 than in my 85. Even the 124's MB tex looks like the materials are thinner than in the 123. I've seen better interiors in cheaper Japanese cars of the same period. MB did make some improvements in the interiors on later 124's to make them look richer.
I should have bought a 126 with the 603 instead of the 124 when I had the chance. At least the 126's remained mostly unchanged qualitywise throughout the model run.

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DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

I agree with everything you say EXCEPT about the interior. My 300E has a LEATHER interior and I have yet to find ANY Japanese car, for any price, with a leather interior as nice as mine and my car is now 18 years old.

If you go look at the leather in a 5 year old Lexus, the odds are quite high that it will be cracked all to pieces. My leather is still in beautiful condition.

Your comparison is much more of an oranges to oranges comparison than mine was. My 240D that I compared to my 300E has manual windows, manual sunroof and unbelievably durable cloth interior.

Have a great day,

Larry,

I was a huge MB fan before my final purchase (96 E300) when I turned to lexus. I hate to brake this to you but after 6 years 78K miles, the leather in my GS is as smooth and soft as a baby's bottom!! Oh, and with the incredibly warm seat heaters in the winter time - it's heaven.

I've had this car since 22K and still ZEEEROOOO problems!!!

That being said, my last 124 300D that I sold to a good friend now has 238K on it. Over the past 2.5 years he has needed to fix a tranny vaccum leak and rebuild the odometer.

If I ever go bake to MB - it will be 124.

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1996 (W210) E300D 86K - Traded in for a Lexus
1992 (W124) 300D 2.5 Turbo 202K - Sold
1983 (W123) 300D, 146K - Sold
1970 280S, 263K - Sold - Beginning of addiction

The 123 car is very ancient but very easy to fix, reliable as an anvil and parts are cheap. Yes you give up some performance, but like I tell othes, there is always a trade off.

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1981 300D 147k
1998 VW Jetta Tdi 320k
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 141k
1979 300D 234k (sold)
1984 300D "Astor" 262k(sold)
Mercedes How-To and Repair Pictorials
I love the smell of diesel smoke in my hair

The W123 is not without flaws when it comes to interior bits either. I'm sure we all know about the awful vinyl window frame molding that shrinks and wrinkles, the glovebox doors that never seem to line up right, and the cheap plastic underdash panels.

And the silly horsehair seat padding that turns into jello after 5-10 years, and the seat frames that break, and the ancient style windshield seals that leak like a sieve, and my personal W123 favorite interior "high quality" feature - the cracked dash.

Is this enough or do you want to move on to some of the W123 exterior issues?

When it comes to cracked dashboards, the W210's are probably the worst. The dash in my '96 looks a lot worse than in my '83 which has only one tiny crack. I agree about the W123 interior leaks and jello seats, those are the weak points. Or maybe people are just too damn fat.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Larry, are you sure your 300E has leather and not MB-tex? It's hard to believe leather would hold up so well.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

My 1991 124 300D was obtained by trading a 6.9 that needed work to it's prior owner. Having never driven the W124, I fell in love with it. The prior owners had never cleaned the leather seats in two years, and after 4 hours of cleaning, degumming and degreasing the interior, it looked perfect. The quality of materials after 200K and 15 years speaks for itself.

Most MBtex in W124's is misrepresented as leather on ebay, probably due to the seller's ignorance that vinyl can actually be of high quality.

This thread should be required reading.

I've seen the leather in any 0lder MB that wasn't cracked 0r t0rn, 124 0r 126. The dash in my 123 is alm0st flawless while the 0ne in the 124 is cracked terribly and is under a c0ver.
At least the gl0ve b0x can be aligned in a 123 where as the 0ne in my 124 was warped bey0nd alignment that I had t find an0ther. The vis0r mirr0rs were falling apart as well. The seats in the 124 feel as bad as in the 123 but 124's squeek and creak terribly.
Exteri0r gripes ab0ut the 123? Bring 'em 0n. I've g0ts lts t0 share 0n the 124.

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DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

w124: More than 250K and *flawless* -- except for cracked wood finish around shifter and driver's seat pleats slightly flattened. Incredible.

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'91 300D 2.5 Turbo 330K
'00 VW TDI Golf, 190K
'67 BMW R50/2
'73 Norton Commando Interstate

I realize that folks here just consider me a hick from NE Texas, but believe it or not I DO know the difference between leather and MB Tex. Even if I were so ignorant as to not know the look, feel and smell of leather, I am literate (yes, we even have schools out here and we even have colleges in Texas, one of which I graduated from) and on the original window sticker which I have in front of me, it inidcates: 274 Palomino Leather $1,425.

If you have any doubts about the condition of the leather in my 300E, private message Suginami and ask him. He brags about my interior every time I give him a ride.

Show me an MB leather interior from the 80's that is in poor condition and I'll show you one that has been SERIOUSLY neglected.