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  #1  
Old 06-01-2003, 05:50 AM
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The oil debate again What do you think of this

Surfing the internet on using synthetic oil in my 1983 300SD and found this. Is this the best choice?
They Say Nothing Outperforms Mobil 1? Wrong!

We now have the independent lab test data for the new Mobil SuperSyn vs. Amsoil. The SuperSyn does not compare to AMSOIL's extended drain interval 25,000 mile/1-year oil or 35,000 mile/1-year oil (0W-30). The test data is as follows for AMSOIL 5W-30 vs. Mobil SuperSyn 5W-30:

NOACK Volatility: AMSOIL: 4.90%, SuperSyn: 9.17%

Flash Point: AMSOIL: 446 deg. F., SuperSyn: 435 deg. F.

Fire Point: AMSOIL: 471 deg. F., SuperSyn: 455 deg. F.

Pour Point: AMSOIL: - 60 deg. F, SuperSyn: -54 deg. F

4-Ball Wear Test: AMSOIL 0.40 mm, SuperSyn: 0.60 mm

TBN (Total Base No.): AMSOIL 12.35, SuperSyn 8.45

Mobil will not recommend or guarantee 25,000 mile/1-year drain intervals like AMSOIL 5W-30, 10W-30 or 10W-40 or 35,000 mile/1-year drain intervals like AMSOIL 0W-30 Severe Service Synthetic does and that is a fact. No-where on the Mobil bottle does it state 25,000 miles/1-year or 35,000 miles/1-year.

Mobil 1 has run the tag line for their advertising stating "nothing outperforms Mobil 1". Mobil makes a good oil, but I'm here to tell you that it does not outperform Amsoil Synthetic Oils. They can come out with all the catchy advertising buzz words to market their oils, but in the final analysis, buzz words don't add one thing to their product's performance. The only reason Amsoil has continued to grow and prosper competing with large corporations like Mobil is that AMSOIL products have consistently performed better.

Here's a special excerpt from A.J. Amaturio, President of AMSOIL, as written in the monthly AMSOIL Action News magazine to all AMSOIL Dealers regarding AMSOIL and Mobil 1:

"As most of you are aware. Mobil 1was introduced after AMSOIL had paved the way for synthetic motor oils back in the '70's. When it was introduced it cased great concern among many of our Dealers. But in my Presidents Message at the time, I assured everyone that having Mobil 1 on the market would only help us sell more oil. Mobil confirmed everything we had been saying about synthetic oils, and our products and claims instantly became more credible.

Since then, we have always been compared to Mobil 1. When people think of synthetic motor oil, they think of Amsoil and Mobil 1, not the other Johnny-come-lately's that have come on the market more recently. I have always said that Mobil 1 is a good motor oil, because compared to the run-of-the-mill motor oils on the market, it is. I have also always said that AMSOIL motor oil is better, again, because it is. Mobil makes their oils to run at normal drain intervals while we make ours for extended drain intervals, and therein lies the difference. Their oils don't have to be as good as ours, so they are not.

To prove that point, we ran a number of comparative tests on our 5W-30 and Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30. The test results are published in this Action News, and they confirm what I have been saying all along. AMSOIL makes a better motor oil.

These test results show significant differences between the oils. Look at the results of the NOACK Volatility Test. Which synthetic oil is going to last longer in service? Look at the difference in Total Base Numbers. Again, which oil is going to provide the longest lasting protection? Look at the Four Ball Wear Test. Which oil will protect against engine wear better? In every category we tested, Amsoil proved superior. Lower pour point, higher flash and fire points, AMSOIL tested best.

So when I hear claims that nothing outperforms Mobil 1, I have to say "wrong!". They may have good slogans and marketing hype, but when it comes to superior performance, I say nothing beats AMSOIL!"

Here is a description of the test parameters discussed in this document:

NOACK Volatility: The NOACK Volatility Test determines the evaporative loss of lubricants in high-temperature service. The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy, increased oil consumption and excessive wear and emissions. A maximum of 15% evaporation loss is allowable to meet the API SL and ILSAC GF-3 specifications. AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil lost an extremely low 4.9% of its original weight during high-temperature service, maintaining its superior protective and performance qualities, while Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil lost 9.17% of its original weight.

Four Ball Wear: The Four Ball Wear Test determines the wear protection properties of a lubricant by measuring the wear scars produced by four metal balls in sliding contact under the test parameters. The smaller the average wear scar, the better the wear protection provided by the lubricant. AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil completed the Four Ball Wear Test producing a smaller wear scar than the Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil.

Flash/Fire Point: The Flash/Fire Point Test determines the lowest temperatures at which application of a flame will cause lubricant vapors to ignite (flash point) and sustain burning for five seconds (fire point). Lubricants with higher flash and fire points exhibit more stable volatility characteristics and are safer to use and transport. AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil has higher flash and fire points than does Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil.

Pour Point: The Pour Point Test determines the lowest point at which a lubricant flows. The lower a lubricants pour point, the better protection it provides in low-temperature service. As shown in the graph, AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil has a lower pour point than Mobil 1Supersyn 5W-30 Motor Oil.

Total Base Number: Total Base Number (TBN) is the measurement of a lubricants reserve alkalinity. The higher a motor oils TBN, the more effective it is in handling contaminants and reducing the corrosive effects of acids for an extended period of time. AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil has a higher TBN than Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil.


AMSOIL is the undisputed leader in synthetics.............



Since 1972, AMSOIL Synthetics have proven to be the BEST. AMSOIL also engineers and manufactures Super Duty Oil filters which have a 12,500 mile service life as well as specialized filtration systems for commercial and fleet applications in cars and light, medium and heavy trucks which can filter particles down to less than one micron ( a standard full flow oil filter can only filter to 20-25 microns, and at a reduced efficiency) making oil changes virtually unnecessary and virtually eliminating engine wear. These filters have been proven by millions of miles of over-the road trucks, construction equipment and fleet service.

Amsoil saves you time and money.
The only 25,000 mile/one- year and 35,000/one- year motor oil in the world.
Exceeds the most stringent performance specifications of all major U.S. and foreign automotive and truck manufacturers.
Provides up to two-times the wear protection of other motor oils.
Increases the life of your vehicle.
Improves performance, fuel economy and efficiency.
Diesel oil and filtration products designed to deliver 1,000,000 miles for over-the-road trucks before engine overhaul.
Used by many national racing teams, fleets, police departments, construction firms and trucking companies.
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  #2  
Old 06-01-2003, 09:48 AM
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wow, it seems like you really like Amsoil oils. I just got two gallons of synthetic 15w40 Amsoil in the mail and I intend to extend the oil change interval as much as I can by doing oil tests every 3000 miles. I'm not really doing this to get the most out of my oil, I'm just curious about how long oils really last. all the oil discussion on this board has created all these myths in my mind and I want to see what's true and what's not.
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  #3  
Old 06-01-2003, 10:45 AM
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Selling AMSOIL is a lot like Avon. It's called "multi-level marketing". A pyramid scheme is also multi-level marketing.

Anyone who would leave any kind of oil in a diesel MB for 35,000 miles has to be crazy. The soot buildup would turn the oil into coal slurry.



Ken300D
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  #4  
Old 06-01-2003, 11:04 AM
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Ken,

Not if the oil filter takes the soot out.

I think anyone that drives a good MB on salt covered roads is crazy.

So we each have our definition of crazy.

P E H
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  #5  
Old 06-01-2003, 11:29 AM
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If Dieselhead gets the oil analysis done every 3000 miles, it should be a good, safe experiment.
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  #6  
Old 06-01-2003, 11:38 AM
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I have nothing to do with amisol oil and have never tried it. I am going to change over to synthetic oil on my next oil change and in doing some research came up with the comparison. Whatever oil I decide on will not change my mind about 3,000 changes.

I just wanted to know if it is the best oil to use.
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  #7  
Old 06-01-2003, 11:47 AM
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Call me backwards or whatever.... but I believe in changing the oil at 3000 miles.

Many lab tests do not reflect the adverse variables extant in real life.

For instance, the effects of condensation, sometimes mixed with fuel or other things.... I just think it is better to get fresh oil into the system rather than trust the filter to get out stuff which I don't even know how to measure....

I don't think the filter can get out acids which may have formed due to ( whatever )...

PEH, ok,,,, are you saying they are supposed to walk in the winter... or would you like to suggest which make of automobile you would recommend throwing to the Salt Devils.....?

PEH, What other things do you think are Crazy ?... (Just in case we need to Tweak your nose at some time in the future)....
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  #8  
Old 06-01-2003, 11:56 AM
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dpbrowne,

You neglected to point out which site you copied that blurb from; but, a quick google search revealed quite a few sites displaying the same message.

As someone already pointed out, Amsoil is a lot like Amway. The distributors are relentless in getting you to buy their product, have all kinds of research and studies to show you, and would love to set you up as a distributor.

I'll stick to buying my oil at Costco.
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  #9  
Old 06-01-2003, 12:15 PM
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this is going to sound like heresy, but I think just about any oil would be ok in our diesels if it's changed every 3000 miles. I have to imagine that most oils out there now are probably better or just as good as the oils that were around 20 years ago, so we're feeding our cars (well, feeding is the wrong word because our cars shouldn't be ingesting oil) oil that is of a higher quality than the engineers of the car for us to use.

and I'm inclined to agree with Greg. changing the oil at 3000 with dino grade diesel oil is probably just as good or better than having extended drain intervals with synthetic.

I'm trying out the Amsoil for several reasons. First, it's mail order, and I don't have access to auto parts stores in NYC. Second, my car lives on the street most of the time and it's difficult changing oil often on a manhattan street. Lastly, I had some extra pocket change to and wanted to see what the hype is about regarding synthetics. I just hope this doesn't spring any oil leaks.
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  #10  
Old 06-01-2003, 01:14 PM
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Interesting...I have used Amsoil (15/40) for the last year after buying my daughters 240d from a guy that is a total "Amsoil nut". He uses it in everything right down to his weedeater. I have driven allot of 240s and that car (210K) has more pep than any I have ever driven including my brown euro with less than 100K. Cant say it due to the oil but who knows.
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  #11  
Old 06-01-2003, 02:49 PM
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I have tested synthetic oil in my 240D and have found that 10,000 miles is the limit. The soot level at that point was close to 5%. The new diesel oils can handle 6% without a problem but the viscosity was starting to go up just a little at 5%.

The TBN of the oil was still at 12 which means it was almost like new in terms of neutralizing acid. Wear rate remained the same at the 5000 mile and 10000 mile check and that is what is important. It had a very low chrome (1ppm)and iron (33ppm)
The oil that I tested was Petro Canada 5W40

I am now using Pennzoil Long Life because it is cheap and meets all the important requirements. I will not be driving the car in the winter so there is no real need for the synthetic oil. I will have it tested at 5000 miles.
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  #12  
Old 06-01-2003, 06:26 PM
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Yes it is true that synthetic oil has a much higher flash point than conventional oil and a much lower pour point. However, I don't care what type or brand oil you use, it is going to get dirty at the same rate. Unless you were to increase the oil capacity of these engines, which is already at 2 gallons, the ratio of "dirt" to oil is going to be the same at 3K. So how can one go 10,000 miles without changing the oil, wouldn't it become slury by that point?
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  #13  
Old 06-01-2003, 08:30 PM
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I forgot to mention that I have a bypass filter installed. (Spinner II).

The job of good oil is to keep the soot particles down to a small size and keep them in suspension. The new CH 4 and CI 4 oils do that very well.

The condition of the engine makes a major difference also. If you have a lot of blow by then your oil is going to load up faster. That is why to be safe you should change it at 3000 miles unless you run an analysis.
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  #14  
Old 06-01-2003, 10:34 PM
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Leather,

OK, you're backward.

Even MB does not recommend oil changes at 3000 miles any more since synthetic oils are available.

I said drive a GOOD MB in the salt. I drive a junker 300SD in the winter. My 3 good MBs hibernate all winter and every spring its virtually like getting a new car without the high cost.

P E H
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  #15  
Old 06-01-2003, 11:29 PM
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Your Summers can not be 3 times as long as your winters... why do you have 3 good MB's ?
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