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  #1  
Old 10-21-2009, 10:05 PM
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MAF elimination project W210 606 turbo

I am wanting to eliminate the MAF on my modified 606 turbo. So far I have gotten close but no cigar.

I took the output wire from the map sensor and spliced it into the maf wire going to the computer. The voltage curve must be similar because I get no CEL in any driving conditions...

except when sitting at idle.

If when I come to a stop I apply slight pedal pressure so that my idle is 900 or 1000rpms I can drive without ever getting a check engine light.

The maf sees a little over 2 volts at idle. The map sensor sees about 1.5 volts at idle.

So that tells me that 1.5 volts is not enough from the map at idle. I need a signal with a little over 2 volts at idle to not trip the check engine light.

Does anyone know how to do that? Evan? I have been trying with a 5 volt diode and a potentiometer with no luck so far.

Does anyone know what the output voltage from the throttle position sensor is and what wire color and pin it is at the computer?

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99 E300 TURBODIESEL Astral Silver 282K - AMG brakes, suspension, monoblocks, speedo & interior - Full Load Maxed on IP by custom Speed Tuning USA Chip - T3/T4 Garrett - EGR/MAF delete
98 E300 TURBODIESEL Alexandrite Green on black leather 289K
95 E300 DIESEL Green Queen 267K SOLD
84 300D 216k SOLD
87 300D 299K #22 head - intercooler - full load adj. - 8sec 0-60mph - SOLD
76 300D 214K SOLD
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2009, 11:36 AM
KarTek's Avatar
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So, you have the MAF out completely and you're just running a splice from the MAP to the MAF signal wire?

Also, if you're running the EGR elimination circuit, you may have to change the resistor to a higher value so the circuit isn't dragging the voltage too low.
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Benz Fleet:
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1998 E300
2008 E63


Non-Benz Fleet:
1992 Aerostar
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2000 F250
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  #3  
Old 10-22-2009, 12:14 PM
compu_85's Avatar
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Can't you just get the computer reprogrammed to ignore the MAF? I have such a setup on my TDI... it works great. It uses the MAF when its plugged in, but if I unplug it it defaults to max airflow giving more off the line power... and a little more smoke. No CEL is tripped, though it does store a code.

A better question is why are you trying to ditch the MAF in the first place?

-Jason
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1991 350SDL. 230,000 miles (new motor @ 150,000).

2013 Fiat 500E. 20,000 miles, 80 miles at a time.
2012 Passat TDI. 95,000 miles. More space, power, and fuel economy than the Benz
2004 Touareg V10 TDI. 150,000 miles. One of 450.
1999 Jetta TDI. 310,000 miles.
1992 Jetta ECOdiesel. 156,000 miles. 1 of 48. Sold.
1991 Jetta ECOdiesel. 430,000 miles. 1 of 700. Sold to VeeDubTDI, totaled in front of our house
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  #4  
Old 10-22-2009, 02:02 PM
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Yes Evan, The maf in just sitting in the corner plugged in but not piped in. I have the egr elimination in there but need a way to get a little over 2 volts incoming from the maf.
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-disav

99 E300 TURBODIESEL Astral Silver 282K - AMG brakes, suspension, monoblocks, speedo & interior - Full Load Maxed on IP by custom Speed Tuning USA Chip - T3/T4 Garrett - EGR/MAF delete
98 E300 TURBODIESEL Alexandrite Green on black leather 289K
95 E300 DIESEL Green Queen 267K SOLD
84 300D 216k SOLD
87 300D 299K #22 head - intercooler - full load adj. - 8sec 0-60mph - SOLD
76 300D 214K SOLD
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  #5  
Old 10-22-2009, 04:26 PM
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I do not think that program is available. I have asked Oliver at speedtuning and he said it is probably not possible.

Also I do not think our cars set codes without the cel.

I put a series of 5v zener diodes together from the 5volt signal from the maf to get roughly 2.5volts. It seems to idle without a code now. I will drive it and see if the coast is clear and if I get a code under any other driving conditions.

The egr bypass is in its modified state. In other words I did nothing to it with this mod.
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-disav

99 E300 TURBODIESEL Astral Silver 282K - AMG brakes, suspension, monoblocks, speedo & interior - Full Load Maxed on IP by custom Speed Tuning USA Chip - T3/T4 Garrett - EGR/MAF delete
98 E300 TURBODIESEL Alexandrite Green on black leather 289K
95 E300 DIESEL Green Queen 267K SOLD
84 300D 216k SOLD
87 300D 299K #22 head - intercooler - full load adj. - 8sec 0-60mph - SOLD
76 300D 214K SOLD

Last edited by mdisav; 10-22-2009 at 07:51 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-22-2009, 07:12 PM
KarTek's Avatar
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Here's a couple documents that might be of interest/help to you...

http://apps.bosch.com.au/motorsport/downloads/sensors_mappressure.pdf

http://apps.bosch.com.au/motorsport/downloads/sensors_throttleposition.pdf

http://apps.bosch.com.au/motorsport/downloads/sensors_airmass.pdf
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Benz Fleet:
1968 UNIMOG 404.114
1998 E300
2008 E63


Non-Benz Fleet:
1992 Aerostar
1993 MR2
2000 F250
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  #7  
Old 10-22-2009, 08:02 PM
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No codes so far and I have driven it around town about 10 miles or so. Right now I have a series or 5 volt diodes in a row bringing the 5 volts reference down to 2.2 volts. So the computer is seeing exactly what it saw before at idle.

Apparently the map curve is adequate for the computer through the maf wire and the egr mod is happy too.

I will report back after a couple of days with varied driving. It just may be licked!

Thanks for the documents Evan!
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99 E300 TURBODIESEL Astral Silver 282K - AMG brakes, suspension, monoblocks, speedo & interior - Full Load Maxed on IP by custom Speed Tuning USA Chip - T3/T4 Garrett - EGR/MAF delete
98 E300 TURBODIESEL Alexandrite Green on black leather 289K
95 E300 DIESEL Green Queen 267K SOLD
84 300D 216k SOLD
87 300D 299K #22 head - intercooler - full load adj. - 8sec 0-60mph - SOLD
76 300D 214K SOLD
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  #8  
Old 10-24-2009, 11:43 AM
auspumpen's Avatar
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Is the MAF used on the 606 just for the purposes of EGR management, similarly to the AFM used on the 603?
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  #9  
Old 10-24-2009, 01:04 PM
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I think it is like the afm for the 603. It may offer some off the line part throttle enrichment but I am not sure how much if any.

I have driven my car for the past two days in hwy and city and no check engine light. I believe it is a success!
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99 E300 TURBODIESEL Astral Silver 282K - AMG brakes, suspension, monoblocks, speedo & interior - Full Load Maxed on IP by custom Speed Tuning USA Chip - T3/T4 Garrett - EGR/MAF delete
98 E300 TURBODIESEL Alexandrite Green on black leather 289K
95 E300 DIESEL Green Queen 267K SOLD
84 300D 216k SOLD
87 300D 299K #22 head - intercooler - full load adj. - 8sec 0-60mph - SOLD
76 300D 214K SOLD
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  #10  
Old 10-24-2009, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdisav View Post
I am wanting to eliminate the MAF on my modified 606 turbo. So far I have gotten close but no cigar.
I'll bite. Why?
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  #11  
Old 10-24-2009, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdisav View Post
The egr bypass is in its modified state. In other words I did nothing to it with this mod.
Another question. Why? Isn't it simpler to reprogram the ECM to NOT use the EGR?
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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
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  #12  
Old 10-24-2009, 06:00 PM
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It probably is simpler. A lot of guys do not want to do it because of the legalities.
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-disav

99 E300 TURBODIESEL Astral Silver 282K - AMG brakes, suspension, monoblocks, speedo & interior - Full Load Maxed on IP by custom Speed Tuning USA Chip - T3/T4 Garrett - EGR/MAF delete
98 E300 TURBODIESEL Alexandrite Green on black leather 289K
95 E300 DIESEL Green Queen 267K SOLD
84 300D 216k SOLD
87 300D 299K #22 head - intercooler - full load adj. - 8sec 0-60mph - SOLD
76 300D 214K SOLD
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  #13  
Old 10-24-2009, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdisav View Post
It probably is simpler. A lot of guys do not want to do it because of the legalities.
Which question were you answering? EGR or MAF?
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
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  #14  
Old 10-24-2009, 10:36 PM
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The 606 uses Bosch EDC12 right? Or is it EDC15? In any event the MAF is used to see that the EGR is working, and to limit smoke.

If they are EDC 15 you should be able to tune out the EGR and get MAF delete if you so choose. If your tuner can't do that I'd suggest finding another one.

-J
__________________
1991 350SDL. 230,000 miles (new motor @ 150,000).

2013 Fiat 500E. 20,000 miles, 80 miles at a time.
2012 Passat TDI. 95,000 miles. More space, power, and fuel economy than the Benz
2004 Touareg V10 TDI. 150,000 miles. One of 450.
1999 Jetta TDI. 310,000 miles.
1992 Jetta ECOdiesel. 156,000 miles. 1 of 48. Sold.
1991 Jetta ECOdiesel. 430,000 miles. 1 of 700. Sold to VeeDubTDI, totaled in front of our house
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  #15  
Old 10-24-2009, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compu_85 View Post
The 606 uses Bosch EDC12 right? Or is it EDC15? In any event the MAF is used to see that the EGR is working, and to limit smoke.

If they are EDC 15 you should be able to tune out the EGR and get MAF delete if you so choose. If your tuner can't do that I'd suggest finding another one.

-J
I would think that a competent tuner can take out the EGR. Mine did. If you remove the MAF, aren't you also removing something that the ECM can use to sense how much air is coming in and adjusting fuel and trim, etc, etc?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
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