I for one would think your horsepower goals should be able to be accomplished with the MW65 Holly. Anything over that, then the M75 Floyd will have to do.
Of course tomnik would be the better person to answer that question.

As far as the price is concerned, that again would be tomnik's realm for the elements and the fuel injection shop that you'll be using to set it up. So you'll have to contact them.


Not that anybody that I've seen had any real experience with this place in Holland, but they may help you out in pricing also.

http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/injection-pump-super-turbo-t-1814.html






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1983 123.133 California
- GreaseCar Veg System

Not do-able under a grand---almost 600 just for the elements

Price is the reason I am going to try the Chinese elements. They can't be that bad or no one would use them in the applications that they are intended. One reason they cost less is they are selling a boat load of them, well, that and cheep labor. Time will tell though.

If I recall correctly the genuine 10mm Bosch element that I am using was $280.00 ish ea.

When you find some one who is willing to mod the pump, you are going to have to work something out as this is not with in the standard time/rate schedule, and most shops are at or over $100.00 per hour these days. Hopefully the contact mentioned in CA who did the other 10mm swap will be willing to do another.


I'm doing mine because no one else will touch it and I can do it exactly how I want to. Even with my price of the Chinese elements (not moded) ($150.00 ish for 5 with shipping), + $50.00 per element to swap ($250.00, + any needed parts ($100.00?), +gaskets - O-rings - welch plugs (25.00?), + tuning time ($150.00) = $675.00

So i can give you 675 bux, a mw pump and you will modd it for me?

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Wie lange wird Ihr Auto leben?

My M-pump, with Tomniks 7.5 mm elements - even with their excellent quality, spent 40 hrs in test and tune. It took that much time to fine tune and squeeze ~400% more fuel than stock.

The pumps to follow will benefit from my pump as it was the first and bench time would be significantly less. It was tested numerous times on a vehicle as well as back on the bench for a turn key pump. Just a thought so you don't sell yourself short.

The MW is much easier to set up from what I have been told, so it may be as easy as you are anticipating.

If it were easy everyone would do it! The reality is there are very vary few people that would pay what the work is truly worth. Realistically this type of build should be in the $2000.00 range.

IMOP the M pump is a terrible design and is not user friendly at all. I took one apart once just to have a look see and was not impressed. Way too much time is required to build one of those things to my tolerances.

I have tuned the RW governors of several MW IPs, both NA and Turbo, over the past couple of years and I am very comfortable with them. I even modified one governor to eliminate the torque control and high speed governors but still had idle governor operation, (for a race car). The MW is very user friendly, but only if you have a solid understanding of how the governors interact with each other.

The last two that I tuned were ones that the owners, (two friends), tried to "turn up the pump" themselves using information that they got on line, which resulted in the "it won't idle down" problem. When both of them left, they had more fueling than they had when they came, the ability to increase or decrease the amount of fueling using the stock external adjustments, and their engines returned to idle properly.

My calibration set up will have a digital sensors interfaced with the IP aspects, injector out put, and will graph all the aspects of the IP that I am interested in, during operation. This is a nice feature because I can chose from different master fueling curve graphs, or, plot a custom one, depending on the pumps application, and tune the governors so that the fuel output, (at the injectors), curve matches the master graph. This should provide a consistent finished product.

I have an engine dyno and if there is truly enough interest, I would put a 617a on it to validate each pump, but that would increase the cost. (that would be nice because I have a HE351VE that I want to mod to work with a 617a)

You can get custom Cummins pumps all day long. There is a reason why no one is doing custom pumps for MB owners, $$$$

Youre dreamin -Mann. you got it Badd, I usually dream about Jessica Alba and Megan Foxx and I in a hottub

One nice thing about machines is you can make them do things that they were not intended to do with a little creative thinking and work. People on the other hand take a lot of work and still say no.

I have received several inquires about doing Ms but I will not touch one, too much of a PIA.

Unfortunately one person’s interest in a cheep MW IP isn't enough to make it worth doing as a priority. This is the second round of market interest polling, and even with Rudolf's successful 617a M project, (very nice job by the way), and the other gentleman that had 10mm elements put in his MW and drove it, (still needs to be tuned to get the power out of it though), there still isn't a market. That’s cool, it is a mega nitch thing, the economy is terrible, and, I personally, don’t have any pervious customer references.

“So I can give you 675 bux, a mw pump and you will mod it for me?”

Your best bet at this point in time is to contact the IP shop that did the other 10mm MW. It is nice to have the work done close to home should follow up be needed.

Personally, I do not like the idea of running the stock IP cam with 10mm elements and as such I am moding mine. Element and cam mods will increase the cost quite a bit though, so we will have to keep an eye out for updates from the 10mm MW IP gentleman.

When I get my set up operational, I will most likely look for cheep MWs, rework them, and put them up for bid. I think I will be able to get a better price that way.

Yeah i was playing around but it was still a good way to find out the realistic state of things.


If i talk to that shop and i dont even have the elements and i dont walk in there in person i think ill hit a dead end.

BUT i cant really buy elements and not know whats going to happen next.


So in short if anyone knows how i can get 160hp out of my motor let me know.

I passed up a buddy selling a M pump i sold him a while back that he had myna mod but i just didnt have the funds at the time. Some guy in New York bought it and i havent heard anything since.

Im not trying to be unrealistic just i have the materials and know how to risk blowing things up so why not find something that works and stick with it?


Thanks for the help guys i guess ill wait to hear back from that guy Tomnik pointed me to.

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Wie lange wird Ihr Auto leben?

What horse power can i get straight up with just the stock pump internals and adjusting them? And if that is something you cannot answer then what HP can YOU get out of a MW stock pump with out changing elements?

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Wie lange wird Ihr Auto leben?

First, power is more complex than just increasing the amount of fuel. More fuel requires more air, so I am assuming that you already have a turbo suitably sized, and capable of 15-20 PSI of intercooled boost.

Second, with the stock 5.5mm elements, the more fuel that the element is adjusted to deliver, the later, (closer to TDC), the end of injection will be, resulting in increased EGTs, smoke, and generally wasting fuel.

Third, the prechambers are calibrated for low boost, as little fuel as possible, and they do not breath well at high speeds. Increasing the boost will help get more air in, but the holes in the end of the prechamber will not allow all the increased volume of gasses, (more initial air from higher boost and more expansion from increased fuel), to escape to the cylinder in time to be useful for work at higher power levels and RPMs. As a result, tremendous pressures are generated in the prechamber and cylinder which do not contribute to the generation of power, but, exhaust temperatures go high, and smoke is generated.

The biggest benefit to larger elements is not increased volume of fuel, but its ability to complete the delivery of fuel in 1/2 to 1/3 of the time of a smaller element. If you are looking to achieve an efficient 160 HP out of a 617a, you really have no choice but to have larger elements installed, because by the time the 5.5mm elements finish delivering the required amount of fuel, most of it will be going out the melting exhaust.

So them you might think, well, HP is a calculation of torque X RPM / 5555. So if I can maintain a reasonable amount of fuel, (with the end of delivery at a reasonable time BTDC), and just increase the max speed, I can increase the HP. Sounds good, but the prechambres do not flow worth a darn,, and at the increased speeds, the amount of time that is available to exchange gasses is reduced, so the EGTs go up and smoke rolls out.

There are a couple of ways to tune a stock pump. The information on every forum that I have seen focuses primarily on increasing the full load limiter in an effort to increase fuel delivery as it is easy to do with little, “OH MY GOD!!!” consequences. Without increasing boost pressure, the engine can really only efficiently use the fuel that the stock full load setting limits, especially at high speeds.

My approach to a stock "daily driver" set up is to increase torque. This will be at lower RPMs so the prechambers will not be as much as of a restriction, and the max quantity of fuel can remain the same, for the most part.

The goal is to take the stock fuel curve and relocate it to lower RPMs. In other words, if the stock full power fuel graph has 7mega gizzes of fuel at 3500 RPM, then after the adjustment you would have 7mega gizzes at 3000 or 2800 RPM, shifting the graph as a hole to a lower RPM range. The engine and prechambers will breathe better at lower speeds, so I try to focus my adjustments on shifting the fuel curve, rather than just increasing the amount of fuel across the board.

To do this the Torque Control Governor needs to be adjusted. The Torque Control Governor spring tension dictates the actual fuel curve, and is not adjustable out side of changing the stock spring with a different strength spring which is located inside the Torque Control Capsule. However, the position of the Torque Control Capsule, in relation to the flyweights, sets where the graph is located in relation to RPMs. Adjusting the Torque Control shifts the fuel curve to a higher RPM or lower RPM, but the curve it's self remains the same.

It is a very tricky adjustment, and requires special tools and attention to detail. This is the adjustment that can result in the engine not wanting to return to Idle if other adjustments are not made correctly, and or, as necessary. Each pump is set differently from the factory depending on which worker built the pump, so not every pump will require the same combination of adjustments. If you follow the instructions that are on most forums, regarding the other adjustments that, are/may be, required after adjusting the Torque Control on a “RW Governor”, you will not get much out of the Torque Control before the engine will not Idle down.

Significant and useable gains can achieved via the Torque Control, but only if the other governors remain in harmony, so do so at your own risk!!

As a matter of point, I am being sued by some nitwitch because I would not tell him how to make this adjustment, and after he screwed it up, it cost him over a grand to get it fixed, which he is trying to sue me for. Now, everyone knows that is BS, I know it is BS, and a judge will soon declare it is BS, but hay, a lawyer is getting paid so what the heck.

The result of his lack of accountability is I will no longer provide any information regarding how to actually make an adjustment privately or publicly. I have no problem describing what a specific adjustment does though.

It is my recommendation that unless a person has a solid understanding of all the individual Governors that make up a RW governor assembly, and how they interact with each other, that only a person with such knowledge, the ability to evaluate the governors "current" settings, determine the required adjustment, and possess the correct tools to make the adjustments, should touch a Governor.

I imagine that I have offended some, intrigued others, and have the remaining wondering what the hell I am babbling about considering the original question. It is 2:37AM and I am tired, went into way more than I intended, so consider this as reading for entertainment prepossess only.

I EFFING LOVED IT! Sorry for the caps , but yeah basically i will sign anything and even make a video recording stating i will not hold you responsible for anything that happens from a pump modd if i paid you to play with it. If you could get an effective 160hp out of the MW or M pump (yes i know you dont like the M) I would let you take as much time and i would order whatever parts you see fit IF you were ever bored enough or willing to take it on as maybe a testing process. No i would pay you chump change and i would pay upfront before work was actually done as a sign of good faith. You seem like you care more then others about the "long haul" and not just the quick fix for more power. I honestly think a healthy 617.952 can handle 160hp for every day driving just fine. If you were to ever decide to take this on for whatever reason i could pull out and modd the pre-chambers myself if you tell me how much bigger or what shape to make the holes in them if thats also what it would take to be correct.

I would do a Myna pump but im not planning on racing and id like to get decent MPG as well as not have to worry about the quality of the internals.

If your interested or at least know how i can get this done let me know....i can also supply extra pumps for parts or to just test on.


Hope any of this peaks some interest in you even with the currant BS event happening with the A-hole suing.

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Wie lange wird Ihr Auto leben?

You could wring out 150 without going into bigger elements The bigger elements are for the 225 up club and there are only a couple guys even in the process in the US now with the 617. I would feel safe the motors would still be as durable if it was kept under 250 from what i have studied.

Have anyone ever heard of 7mm MW elements I have talked with a place that says they have access to 7mm for the mw--in BOSCH?????

I believe that there was some discussion that there are 7mm elements available for an IH application, but I thought that was for the M-series pump.

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Gone to the dark side

- Jeff