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  #1  
Old 09-21-2017, 12:31 PM
10mm MW
 
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Timing MW pump

A friend asked me to post a picture of the gauge I use to set the timing when I install a MW pump.

The #1 DV holder and DV have to be removed in order to measure the plunger height. R&R pump and maintain the exact timing.
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Timing MW pump-mw-timing-indicator-001-small-.jpg  
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  #2  
Old 09-22-2017, 04:23 PM
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  #3  
Old 07-30-2018, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OM616 View Post
A friend asked me to post a picture of the gauge I use to set the timing when I install a MW pump.

The #1 DV holder and DV have to be removed in order to measure the plunger height. R&R pump and maintain the exact timing.
As you said it is going to work fine to pull the pump of and return it to the same position.

Sometimes if you bump stuff dial indicators loose their setting depending on how sturdy the setup is and how hard it gets bumped.

A different part of the issue is after a Fuel Injection Pump is installed people often re-time it and the Dial Indicator won't help you do that.

I enlarged the part of the fotograph and this particular MW Fuel Injection Pump has the port for the Timing Locking Pin which is made for removal and especially re-installation.
The same port is used for some other methods of timing like the A&B Light.

When you use the Timing Locking Pin when you re-install the Fuel Injection Pump you get a static timing (it times the Fuel Injection Pump Camshaft to the Engine).

Timing with the Timing Locking Pin is done at 15 degrees after top dead center of the compression stroke on #1.

Some Company's Fuel Injection Pumps are timed with Dial Indicators. (CAT is one that uses this when the Fuel Injection Pump is Built.) However, there is no factory spec for that on the ones used the older Mercedes.

I believe the Bosch Fuel Injection Pumps in Dodge Diesels use a Dial Indicator setup for timing.
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Timing MW pump-240d-mw-fuel-injection-pump-b.jpg   Timing MW pump-timing-locking-pin-2018.jpg  
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  #4  
Old 08-02-2018, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
As you said it is going to work fine to pull the pump of and return it to the same position.

Sometimes if you bump stuff dial indicators loose their setting depending on how sturdy the setup is and how hard it gets bumped.

A different part of the issue is after a Fuel Injection Pump is installed people often re-time it and the Dial Indicator won't help you do that.

I enlarged the part of the fotograph and this particular MW Fuel Injection Pump has the port for the Timing Locking Pin which is made for removal and especially re-installation.
The same port is used for some other methods of timing like the A&B Light.

When you use the Timing Locking Pin when you re-install the Fuel Injection Pump you get a static timing (it times the Fuel Injection Pump Camshaft to the Engine).

Timing with the Timing Locking Pin is done at 15 degrees after top dead center of the compression stroke on #1.

Some Company's Fuel Injection Pumps are timed with Dial Indicators. (CAT is one that uses this when the Fuel Injection Pump is Built.) However, there is no factory spec for that on the ones used the older Mercedes.

I believe the Bosch Fuel Injection Pumps in Dodge Diesels use a Dial Indicator setup for timing.

Personally, I would not leave the indicator in the pump when actually removing it. As you mentioned it is easy to damage it.

What I do is bring the plunger up to the start of injection speck (this sets the crank position), and remove the indicator, pull the pump, do what I want with it, put the pump back in, move the pump around to get the plunger back at the start of injection height, and then tighten down the pump. Never touched the crank, and regardless of what timing the pump was set to before it was pulled, it ends up the same.

As for actually setting timing, the start of injection plunger height spec that is used to set the #1 barrel height is what I use. I set the crank to where I want it and then move the pump to get the #1 plunger up to the start of injection height. The locking pin will do the same thing. If any timing other than stock is desired, then a little math is required..

To each their own
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  #5  
Old 08-28-2018, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OM616 View Post
As for actually setting timing, the start of injection plunger height spec that is used to set the #1 barrel height is what I use. I set the crank to where I want it and then move the pump to get the #1 plunger up to the start of injection height.

What procedure do you use to find the start of injection height?
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  #6  
Old 08-28-2018, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Maxbumpo View Post
What procedure do you use to find the start of injection height?
I use the Bosch speck used to set the #1 element barrel height.
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  #7  
Old 12-21-2018, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxbumpo View Post
What procedure do you use to find the start of injection height?
I used to work in a fuel injection Shop. Some fuel injection pump makers use a dimension as you are asking about and use a dial indicator nor in the case of the old caterpillar pumps you used and depth micrometer.

My knowledge dates back to about 1979.

Back then you used the drip time method to time all of the elements. The #1 element was timed so that begin injection matched up with the make on the front splined collar and a mark on the housing of the front bearing. You can see that on your own pumps.

If that was off you adjusted that in the case of the MW fuel injection pumps by changing the size of the shim pack under the element flange. On the other types of Bosch inline fuel injection pumps you changed that by changing the thickness of a plate that is on the tappet that pushes the plunger.

After you find that the rest of the elements are timed again with the drip method but you attach a degree wheel to the drive collar and rotate the camshaft X amount of dresses and set the begin injection on each of the rest of the elements as described in the previous paragraphs.

If you are doing the above to a used fuel injection pump the drip method is more accurate because of wear on the camshaft, rollers, roller bushings and the roller pin. Any sort of wear on those means a dimensional measurement is not going to be accurate because the wear is not going to be equal.


At that time most of the other makes of inline fuel Injection Pumps accept caterpillar used the drip method.

Timing the engine to the #1 element assumes that there is no individual element timing issues with the other element.


Note that I was fortunate to have a Boss to teach me the ropes and that my first diesel mechanics jobs was in that fuel injection shop because a lot of the problems with diesels be involving the fuel supply and fuel injection system.
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2018, 12:45 PM
10mm MW
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
I used to work in a fuel injection Shop. Some fuel injection pump makers use a dimension as you are asking about and use a dial indicator nor in the case of the old caterpillar pumps you used and depth micrometer.

My knowledge dates back to about 1979.

Back then you used the drip time method to time all of the elements. The #1 element was timed so that begin injection matched up with the make on the front splined collar and a mark on the housing of the front bearing. You can see that on your own pumps.

If that was off you adjusted that in the case of the MW fuel injection pumps by changing the size of the shim pack under the element flange. On the other types of Bosch inline fuel injection pumps you changed that by changing the thickness of a plate that is on the tappet that pushes the plunger.

After you find that the rest of the elements are timed again with the drip method but you attach a degree wheel to the drive collar and rotate the camshaft X amount of dresses and set the begin injection on each of the rest of the elements as described in the previous paragraphs.

If you are doing the above to a used fuel injection pump the drip method is more accurate because of wear on the camshaft, rollers, roller bushings and the roller pin. Any sort of wear on those means a dimensional measurement is not going to be accurate because the wear is not going to be equal.


At that time most of the other makes of inline fuel Injection Pumps accept caterpillar used the drip method.

Timing the engine to the #1 element assumes that there is no individual element timing issues with the other element.


Note that I was fortunate to have a Boss to teach me the ropes and that my first diesel mechanics jobs was in that fuel injection shop because a lot of the problems with diesels be involving the fuel supply and fuel injection system.
You are talking about setting the start of injection of each element right?? This thread is about setting the static timing when installing the pump on the engine.

In regards to setting the timing for each element, I do it a little differently. I measure and find the port closure plunger height for each element. I set #1 and then rotate to #2 degree start and set that element based on the measurement I took.

I am not going to say it is better. If one prefers to drip, then drip away lol
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  #9  
Old 12-23-2018, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OM616 View Post
You are talking about setting the start of injection of each element right?? This thread is about setting the static timing when installing the pump on the engine.

In regards to setting the timing for each element, I do it a little differently. I measure and find the port closure plunger height for each element. I set #1 and then rotate to #2 degree start and set that element based on the measurement I took.

I am not going to say it is better. If one prefers to drip, then drip away lol
Of course there is personal choice. There is at least 4+ other methods of timing methods that people have used or tried.--------------------Again the timing locking pin is made to hold the fuel injection pump camshaft in place during re-installation and that takes care of the static timing.
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  #10  
Old 12-23-2018, 02:35 AM
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What I was trying to show with my long description of the pump timing that drip timing is accurate. It does not matter if the fuel injection pump is a new assembly or you are rebuilding it or you are doing it on the engine if you do your job drip timing is accurate.
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  #11  
Old 12-23-2018, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
What I was trying to show with my long description of the pump timing that drip timing is accurate. It does not matter if the fuel injection pump is a new assembly or you are rebuilding it or you are doing it on the engine if you do your job drip timing is accurate.

Gotcha...
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