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  #1  
Old 10-12-2018, 11:25 AM
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Baffled Oil Pan

Greetings,

I am seeking a baffled oil pan for aggressive driving to avoid oil starvation on long corners. Photos would help me fabricate my own. Any help is appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 10-14-2018, 11:32 PM
jabroni tig weldor
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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if you really intend to road race your om 60x. what you want is a dry sump. the stock pans already have baffles. more or less. i think a om648 is dry sump? might be able to use some parts from that, or at least get an idea conceptually?

i dont see custom baffles really doing much because the stock pan is already pretty well engineered and actually has baffles. i have an "L" pan but for the most part its always full so it any slosh and sump is wet regardless. i guess my point is if your having that severe of slosh issues with 3 gallons of oil, maybe you need a dry sump?
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  #3  
Old 10-14-2018, 11:59 PM
jabroni tig weldor
 
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i even have a video of the dang thing




w123 om603 oil pan
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  #4  
Old 10-15-2018, 12:47 AM
Diseasel300's Avatar
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What engine are we even discussing here? Is it a stock setup, or is it highly modded? The diesels tend to have a pretty deep sump, I can't imagine ever starving it for oil, even in a drift car.
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  #5  
Old 10-15-2018, 11:34 AM
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Pardon me, Imam an early Porsche guy.
617 turbo diesel w123 car. Pan does not have any baffling.

Engine is stock other than Monarch injectors, stiffer pump return spring from Mark, and one turn on the ALDA. Looking for a bit more...

Problem arose after installing 50mm drop H&R springs with HD Bilsteins. Took an onramp at full gallop and saw the oil pressure needle bounce. Maybe simply overfilling by a quart is the fix....

This car will be participating in a road rally with an afternoon of hot laps at Chipwalla Raceway. I do not see an easy way to add an accumulator.
Any advice is appreciated.
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  #6  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:26 PM
jabroni tig weldor
 
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i think your over thinking it. that blip probably means something else or nothing. i mean if you can look at your pressure gauge while "cornering" your not really cornering. as said before the sumps are pretty deep and the capacity has them pretty well submerged all the time.

ive rallyed an om 617 pretty hard in a 123. never had oil issues.. well besides crushing the pan into the sump starving it and blowing one up that way... but never had "performance driving" related oil issues lol.
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  #7  
Old 10-17-2018, 12:00 AM
jabroni tig weldor
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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om617 flyby





(its a youtube video)
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  #8  
Old 10-17-2018, 12:07 AM
jabroni tig weldor
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmierung View Post
Pardon me, Imam an early Porsche guy.
617 turbo diesel w123 car. Pan does not have any baffling.

Engine is stock other than Monarch injectors, stiffer pump return spring from Mark, and one turn on the ALDA. Looking for a bit more...

Problem arose after installing 50mm drop H&R springs with HD Bilsteins. Took an onramp at full gallop and saw the oil pressure needle bounce. Maybe simply overfilling by a quart is the fix....

This car will be participating in a road rally with an afternoon of hot laps at Chipwalla Raceway. I do not see an easy way to add an accumulator.
Any advice is appreciated.
completely remove your alda.

it does the exact opposite of what an "afc" does on a cummins. long story short the alda is spring loaded so it cuts fuel until it gets boost to over power the spring, by removing it you essentially get full fueling. pretty sure this is the "bump" your looking for. that and playing with your wastegate to bump boost by drilling a small hole in the elbow and going up in hole size till you get your desired boost start small. but pretty sure there is a fine line on the 617 for how much boost it can take, and i dont even mess with those anymore so i wont be able to tell you what that line is but ya thats where i would start if i were trying to turn one up. im also assuming you have gotten rid of all the egr crap or dont have it. only after doing that stuff would i actually try to mess with real pump adjustments.
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  #9  
Old 10-17-2018, 01:24 AM
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Thank you G-Wiz.
I was EMRA GT-2 champion 27 years ago and can easily set into the radius and converse with a student. Maybe I overdrive the car now, just love this thing.

Perhaps just an extra half or full quart of Rotel will solve the issue. Am changing the pan anyway since it is dented and they are cheap. Maybe add small trans cooler.

EGr stuff gone, 1984 CA model. doing cone filter behind headlight and maybe delete rear muffler. Attempt to wrap turbo. Will investigate how to remove the alda as it seems counter productive to my quest. What is appropriate hole size to start with?

I thank you and Dieselguru for your serious and very knowledgeable advice.

My wife loves this car and spits on the 911. I am creating a monster...
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2018, 02:56 AM
jabroni tig weldor
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmierung View Post
Thank you G-Wiz.
I was EMRA GT-2 champion 27 years ago and can easily set into the radius and converse with a student. Maybe I overdrive the car now, just love this thing.

Perhaps just an extra half or full quart of Rotel will solve the issue. Am changing the pan anyway since it is dented and they are cheap. Maybe add small trans cooler.

EGr stuff gone, 1984 CA model. doing cone filter behind headlight and maybe delete rear muffler. Attempt to wrap turbo. Will investigate how to remove the alda as it seems counter productive to my quest. What is appropriate hole size to start with?

I thank you and Dieselguru for your serious and very knowledgeable advice.

My wife loves this car and spits on the 911. I am creating a monster...
1/8" hole. you kinda need a boost gauge to check your progress as you go. and dont go too nuts. basically your creating an air bleed so it takes more compressor pressure to move the waste gate spring the same amount... which equals more boost. this is the cheapo diy way to do this by the way. companies make boost elbows that are adjustable and do this too.

your oil issues likely stem from the dent in the pan. the way the sump is on that engine does not leave much room, it does not take much of a dent to contact and ultimately starve it.
so realistically i would fix this before i beat on it.

turbo wraps wont do much. just smell funny for a couple days. best mod is to change the turbo and up the air volume.
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  #11  
Old 10-17-2018, 08:09 AM
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Thanks! I will run .5 quart high for the track then with new pan. ALDA will go away. If I have time I will do .125 hole but no more for now.
Thanks again!
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2018, 08:34 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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The lower pan is sheet steel so it would be easy to add baffles. The old Ferrari 250 motor from the fifties and sixties had simple egg crate baffles in the oil pan with holes drilled in the bottom to let oil flow at a specific rate from one baffle to the next. It also held like 14 quarts of oil.

It would be easy to build one and weld it into the lower pan but getting the holes the right side would be the tricky part. Too big and the baffle is useless, too small and it starves the pickup.

I like to corner hard too but have never seen a benz motor starved unless it was low on oil.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2018, 12:42 PM
jabroni tig weldor
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
The lower pan is sheet steel so it would be easy to add baffles. The old Ferrari 250 motor from the fifties and sixties had simple egg crate baffles in the oil pan with holes drilled in the bottom to let oil flow at a specific rate from one baffle to the next. It also held like 14 quarts of oil.

It would be easy to build one and weld it into the lower pan but getting the holes the right side would be the tricky part. Too big and the baffle is useless, too small and it starves the pickup.

I like to corner hard too but have never seen a benz motor starved unless it was low on oil.
far better chance disrupting the oil flow to the sump by doing that. the only way to do it around the sump is with "trap doors" .. none of this stuff is super easy to fab because its inside your engine. long story short you need to be willing to accept an engineering failure anytime you reengineer something inside a motor. sooo advising that is a fine line and greatly depends on the persons skill set executing what ever is being done.
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  #14  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:37 AM
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Thanks for all the input. Really.
Hinged trap doors are the ultimate I agree, however I am thinking a few precision placed baffles is what will do the trick.....if there really is an oil problem.

Saturday, I will add .5 liter to the oil and do the 270 degree banked on ramp at full speed again and monitor for blip before modification. Maybe that is the fix.
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  #15  
Old 10-19-2018, 12:58 AM
jabroni tig weldor
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmierung View Post
Thanks for all the input. Really.
Hinged trap doors are the ultimate I agree, however I am thinking a few precision placed baffles is what will do the trick.....if there really is an oil problem.

Saturday, I will add .5 liter to the oil and do the 270 degree banked on ramp at full speed again and monitor for blip before modification. Maybe that is the fix.
honestly if your pan is pushed in thats is probably the issue. it was for my om 617 and yes it roached the motor.

i built a bash bar/skid plate to prevent it from happening again.
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