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#16
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yea convert to efi like turboe320 says,
am i correct looking at your pics that only a few of the cylinders look to have leaned out, (the middle one?) welcome to the forum and tuning forced benz's, there arn't many that do it, but that makes it so much cooler roman (pumpish) has a merc tuning website, and seems to have great success tuning the m103, maby he may sell a manifold or be able to help you in some way, Last edited by c280nz; 02-04-2010 at 06:18 AM. |
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My vote is still for the LPG. Plus he has already indicated that he basically wants to finish and improve upon what has already been started. It would definitely be the least expensive way to go and he is the one after all, paying for the project.
Regards, Eric
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89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected 93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C. 95 E420 "Benzer4" 92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG 87 300D "Benzer7" 87 300D "Benzer8" 87 300D "Benzer9" 87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer" 87 300TD "Benzer11" 06 E320 CDI "Benzer12" 05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A" 71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder" 74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C. 74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd. |
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If you decide to stick with LPG, than I recommend you convert to liquid injected LPG. Years ago I tried LPG (old type) on my stock 2.5-16v and was not pleased so I basically threw it out. As to the exhaust header you could buy one from turbobanditen.se ( http://turbobandit.com/shop/show_cat.asp?cat_id=96&head_id=91 ) or you could build a custom one.
P.S. I don't think this LPG system will be able to coupe with the boost levels your aiming at 20-25 psi. Evaporators/mixers have e hp/kw rating, do you know the rating of yours, you might need to upgrade or even add another depending on the power your aiming at ?
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190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar 1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires) Last edited by Joreto; 02-04-2010 at 07:40 AM. |
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1993 190E 2.6 Sportline |
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WOW thanks guys for all your feedback
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Yep! I live in Australia. E85 is not available here yet. We have E10 & it is alot more expensive than LPG (well over double). This was to support our sugar industry down here. In hindsight, I probably wouldn't bother with conversion myself although, our Gov' were offering 80%+ rebate if we did conversion I've become interested since the purchase so, wth?
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um.....why have men got nipples Last edited by BAD300; 02-04-2010 at 05:05 PM. |
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my only concern if you stay with lpg is getting consistant mixes accross all cylinders to make the sort of power/ run the boost you want,
it is all about even cylinder conditions accross all 6 cylinders, for example you dont want all the lpg going to some cylinders and not to others, this may be why the current system leaned out on some cylinders and not others, just speculating, as long as you can get even lpg and air mix to all cylinders it should be sweet tho! i like the difference in your project, very cool! |
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I just don't know why all the rust & corrosion through everything? I wonder if the previous owner didn't run coolant & just used water?
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um.....why have men got nipples |
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that and that it prolly sat for weeks on end with water in the bores due to blown hg. and prolly water was in the manifold as well.
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Jay, ----------------- -1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;( -1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady) -1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman Twin turbo Kit). -1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen) -1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold) -1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold) http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed |
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makes me sick. What a waste of a great engine.........coulda been great
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um.....why have men got nipples |
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Your car did have an ECU and the injection system was both mechanical and electronic but my guess is none of this is at play now because you have a mechanical LPG system providing the fuel now.
Maybe what 280 is referring to is the fact that a manifold that was designed to be a dry flow only manifold is now being forced to be a wet flow manifold. An intake charge with fuel in it is heavier and not able to make sharp turns as easily as air alone is. I'm assuming that the fuel and air are entering at the stock throttle body location. If that is the case, you have a horrible, very sharp, very sudden turn from that location into the center two cylinders. Probably not much of an issue in a dry flow scenario but a bad deal for a wet flow scenario. This might explain why those center two cylinders got in trouble. The rest of the cylinders have a little more room and time for the intake charge to make the turn into their runners. I'm not saying this problem can't be overcome, I'm just saying you may need to be aware of it so you can do something about it. If you can afford it, the LPG injection would do a better job, but I'm sure the current set up could be made to work decently as well. Regards, Eric
__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected 93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C. 95 E420 "Benzer4" 92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG 87 300D "Benzer7" 87 300D "Benzer8" 87 300D "Benzer9" 87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer" 87 300TD "Benzer11" 06 E320 CDI "Benzer12" 05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A" 71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder" 74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C. 74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd. Last edited by 400Eric; 02-05-2010 at 07:34 AM. |
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At tghis stage I wouldn't know where to turn for fixing this dilemma with mixer. I could have a chat to this installer/tuner down here & take along the head I guess Monday. May even be able to call him this morn.
All this info is helping me do what I have to. Thanks again
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um.....why have men got nipples |
#27
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The problem is in the intake manifold..... take that to him too.
My fix would be to smooth and radius the entries into those center two runners from the plenum area and not touch the rest so that maybe they could all be evened out somewhat by helping the center runners catch back up to the flow of the other runners. Regards, Eric
__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected 93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C. 95 E420 "Benzer4" 92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG 87 300D "Benzer7" 87 300D "Benzer8" 87 300D "Benzer9" 87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer" 87 300TD "Benzer11" 06 E320 CDI "Benzer12" 05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A" 71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder" 74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C. 74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd. Last edited by 400Eric; 02-05-2010 at 11:27 PM. |
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1993 190E 2.6 Sportline |
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Yes, LPG won't fall out of suspension but it is still heavier than air alone is and is thus unable to make sharp turns as quickly and easily as air alone can. I still say that a person could smooth and radius the entries into those center two runners from the plenum area and not touch the rest of the runners so that maybe they could all be evened out somewhat by helping the center runners catch back up to the flow of the other runners. It's not a perfect solution but it's probably the best one short of doing the LPG injection thing. Regards, Eric
__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected 93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C. 95 E420 "Benzer4" 92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG 87 300D "Benzer7" 87 300D "Benzer8" 87 300D "Benzer9" 87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer" 87 300TD "Benzer11" 06 E320 CDI "Benzer12" 05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A" 71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder" 74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C. 74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd. Last edited by 400Eric; 02-06-2010 at 05:19 AM. |
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After reading a pretty concise doc' on the 3 fuels of choice, gas, LPG or LPI, the injection is the superior one although obviously costly. This eliminates the Mixer AFR/tune probs totally by ECU (stand alone I would guess?) controlling each individual cylinder as in EFI
You guys have hinted to & imo right on the button concerning the Mixer being nothing but a pain in the ass. It is difficult to tune & requires re-tuning periodically. Is uneconomical. Unreliable. Damn dnagerous to engine from what I have read. Unless this LPG installer guru can suggest something wonderful to me. Eric, I would be really hesitant to simply try & fix the inlet mani. Sure it makes sense & may help but won't rectify the prob I don't think? Again, right now I believe the mixer shouldn't have been used in the first place the way it is set up. Running on straight LPG via mixer affords slow start ups & dangerous backfiring. EFI fixes this so you don't need dual fuel. Also, although these cars do orig' have an ECU, it is a very basic one that does little more than control cold-start really. Has no effect on AFR or timing etc from what I read also so, it can't be manipulated as in an EFI set up which utilises the ECU with proper complex sensors such as o2 exhaust sensor & knock sensor as with my 88' Mazda 323 Turbo. I will be discussing this LPG dilemma with installer hopefully Monday. Thanks for your help it is priceless! I will let you know how I go on Monday Here's the article btw: a get-to-the-point doc' on LPI: http://www.lpgli.com/features.html I've found this a good explanation of the 3 different fuel delivering methods: Not rocket science but a simple comparison of fuel delivery systems. Perhaps you guys know it in more detail? Along with your points, it helps my to decide whether it's worth the hassle to try with Mixer feed: Here are a few other informative articles/doc's with good explanations: http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/Turbo.html http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/which_conversion.html http://www.amershamauto.com/pages/how_lpg_works.htm
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um.....why have men got nipples Last edited by BAD300; 02-06-2010 at 02:06 PM. |
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