BAD 300E project commenced - Page 9 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BAD300 · #**121** 08-14-2010, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRash

I love the cis, dont forget my car covered over 25000km under boost and severe abuse for it was my daily driver and i drove the car just as hard as it was when stock, if not harder due to all the races i was called for since it was the only boosted w124 in my country. and it did that without even using extra injectors, thou i do tell u thats the worst option to go with since tuning cis to this level of output will make ur hair fall

and turn the few left gray since the setup on the m103 was never made to see positive pressure. but i loved it, i miss it.

many claim to have run high boost on those engines, and the m104, but i for one still think the piston ring lands are the weakest point in the engine. the rods are strong and will take the boost, the pistons even are tough and will take the extra heat, but the ring lands might crack if the engine is run under high boost for long periods. but hey thats my say, and i might be wrong.

ED, how many miles has your covered with the turbo setup? my car did just over 25000km taking the engine from abt 360000km to just over 385000km before i broke a perssure ring, and that only happened after i upped the boost to abt 10-11 psi and had to use the alc injection kit to make up for the needed fuel, and on that day the engine sat on the 7000rev limiter for longer than i would recommend in 2nd gear on burn out.

Jay, very sound advice

This is also a big point I'd like to bring up as I have brought up just yesterday elsewhere. I won't be running high boost (12-15psi) ever for any duration worth worrying about. It won't be driven on the track. I would never run high boost for any decent length of time, expecting the rings to cope. This is why I am going for high boost @ the dyno. To know what it can do reliably when I want it. Here in Australia, you can't drive anything hard for long @ all unless your into fines

& want the fuzz to be watching out for you. Not too many solid red Mercs down my way. Heaps of 180's & 190's in champagne, silver or silver-green driven by ol' retired farts & maybe some half-hot Beemers running around but my 300E will stick out like dogs nuts

There was a really nice all black 300E recently sold here on EBay.....very nice. Anyway. I am seriously considering getting a set of AMG style rims to keep it looking standard. So I can have fun now & then without drawing unwanted attention

Guys, I need to see this thing through to the end regardless of experience & warnings. There was no point starting the project if it was doomed from the start. Last owner trashed the thing & all I have is pity for this car that he ever owned it in the first place

Here's to a different build & we'll see how it goes.....hard walking past $1500+ forged pistons sitting outside my garage door with rusting rods

Would luv to have them in the engine

I have one consideration @ present I am very paranoid about. Turbo Surge! Is the .63 A/R housing going to pose a problem??? Keeping in mind I am using the smaller 40 size turbine trim! GT3540R

Pls anyone who can shed some light on the subject as the turbo is being put together by reseller now & will be ready early next week.

Dearlove · #**122** 08-14-2010, 11:21 AM

got a decent BOV??

MagnumPI · #**123** 08-14-2010, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBYCC

CIS is far from garbage...
More a challenge to keep something "period" and not build a "grenade"

TurboTechnics came up with a great solution for fuel enrichment using CIS over twenty years ago.
Replace the rubber boot between the air valve assembly and the throttle body with an aluminum casting that holds two additional injectors.
The shortcoming at that time was the additional injector control.
Now you can use a compact solid state additional injector controller firing the two injectors...it's a perfect match.
Can't be any simpler...three wires and vacuum/boost tube to the internal MAP sensor on the controller and you're good to go.
Program with a laptop and it will match any EFI for enrichment.

My last pulls on a Mustang load dyno gave 262RWP and 302 torque at only 7lbs boost.
Compared to the stock non turbo base line pulls and the output has doubled.

But EFI can be tuned for a perfect map all the time for increased efficiency and power, not just under enrichment. CIS went away for a reason. It's just nostalgia for it's own sake. Heck, why not swap in a fully mechanical fuel injection setup and remove those dang ol' computers altogether! I don't know. Do what you want, but any serious tuner goes standalone. Because there's hardly any reason not to...

However, might swapping in parts from other CIS cars have some benefit? Like Volvo turbos or something? I'm sure there's something else out there designed more appropriately for turbos and more fuel that ran that system.

BAD300 · #**124** 08-15-2010, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dearlove

got a decent BOV??

although there bloody illegal here, most things are, I certainly will be & I know their job is to make sure surge doesn't happen. Still. Horrid to think about isn't it

Dearlove · #**125** 08-15-2010, 06:15 AM

nah they're not,
only if they're vented to atmo, plumb back and they're perfectly fine

BAD300 · #**126** 08-16-2010, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dearlove

nah they're not,
only if they're vented to atmo, plumb back and they're perfectly fine

oh cool

Was beginning to get annoyed with regulations here that's all. Was deciding on best sized wastegate when I read all the trouble people get into with the law over add ons. Thanks Dearlove! BOV's do their job well!

Dearlove · #**127** 08-16-2010, 07:10 PM

its the same deal with waste gates, people only have problems if they have screamer pipes, if its plumbed back again, its fine

BAD300 · #**128** 08-16-2010, 08:13 PM

was wondering what engineer cert's cost? Considering it down the track (if car passes VICROADS rego check) to bugger it & get certified so I won't have to pay fine & EPA test then have to get it cert'd in the end anyway.

Thing is. If I keep it stealth in appearance. There will never be a need for authorities to open bonnet on an old 300E lol. There are plenty of way lowered, sometimes noisy Sylvia's, Skylines, EVO's & WRX's around to keep the coppers busy. If you be stupid & draw attention then, that's when your in the ****.....

nick.ged · #**129** 08-17-2010, 05:35 AM

bad luck with the law, that sucks, in uk, we can have dump valves on the roof if we like! lol.

as far as standalone goes, it is the best thing to do if you want to tune for more than 350ish.

upto that figure, the setup ed has is perfectly acceptable, and simpler to do, as ed has stated many times, the car doesnt even know its boosted.

the point that 'stay with cis and enrich', deviates from 'junk the cis and go stand alone' is that with standalone, the ignition can be tuned, wich i beleive alows more power to be extracted, but this is only worth it if other upgrades are added as well.

BAD300 · #**130** 08-17-2010, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick.ged

bad luck with the law, that sucks, in uk, we can have dump valves on the roof if we like! lol.

as far as standalone goes, it is the best thing to do if you want to tune for more than 350ish.

upto that figure, the setup ed has is perfectly acceptable, and simpler to do, as ed has stated many times, the car doesnt even know its boosted.

the point that 'stay with cis and enrich', deviates from 'junk the cis and go stand alone' is that with standalone, the ignition can be tuned, wich i beleive alows more power to be extracted, but this is only worth it if other upgrades are added as well.

touche'

Besides me not having CIS (been removed previously). The main reason I am going stand alone is due to otherwise lack of control of the fuel mapping with the LPG set up. As you've stated. Stand Alone gives you total control over AFR's & therefore power with reliability

LPG is easy to tune but must be set up right in the first place. I am getting the custom inlet manifold bench flow tested prior to fitment so I know cylinders won't lean out. Stand Alone will ensure it gets enough juice/air. I am going into great detail including custom exhaust manifold to ensure this ride is done right this time.

BAD300 · #**131** 08-18-2010, 06:48 PM

Decided to raise the boost in increments when we, eventually do get to tune car

Initially do a run @ 10psi using a 45 external wastegate then @ 15psi @ see how she fairs & what hp we can achieve @ this boost. As I've said before, hp will be down due to small turbine housing but the trade off is quicker low down response so I can live with that

I won't be running a BOV as the auto's stalled @ 2300-2500rpm so unlike manual gear changes where you would definitely run a BOV, gear change will be pretty much instantaneous & BOV in this case would be for the wank effect only. Back pressure will be negligible & the large wastegate will do that job well. Also the larger comp wheel ensure large volume of airflow & counter the back pressure anyway. All in the set up @ this stage.

Also @ this stage I think I'll call it a day @ 15psi for reliability purposes more than anything. The LPG will work in my advantage in this area with it's higher octane ability however, this hp will be a big enough shock I think for the stock car including running gear, brakes, suspension per se.

The MT8 has to be made up especially & will be a few weeks wait bugger it. Hopefully there is enough to be done in the meantime with fabrication anyway?

Dearlove · #**132** 08-18-2010, 08:17 PM

lifting off the throttle quickly also can cause it, you need a bov, plumb it back and no one will even know you've got it, just get a used one of a skyline

BAD300 · #**133** 08-18-2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dearlove

lifting off the throttle quickly also can cause it, you need a bov, plumb it back and no one will even know you've got it, just get a used one of a skyline

Yeah good point Dearlove. Thanks. Left message with workshop manager concerning this, as you've said today. Hard to get a chance to talk turkey with him most days so just waiting for him to get back to me about this

nick.ged · #**134** 08-19-2010, 07:37 AM

i agree with ^. you should run a dump valve, merc transmittions dont always do what you think they should, flareing ect, the valve will be a safety net just in case.

BAD300 · #**135** 08-23-2010, 11:03 PM

Here's the specs of custom turbo I had made. Similar to the GT3582R:

Compressor - Wheel 82mm/56 Trim .70 A/R (farkin, huge )
Turbine - Wheel 68mm/84 Trim .63 A/R (again, huge )
*Uses a T04S compressor & T3 inlet flange (I thought T3 exhaust flange myself?)
Rated to 600hp