Which do you think would perform better. Granted the 98+ C43 is a smaller car, but their is almost a 400 lbs difference. Wouldn't that make it more nimble then the 94+ E500. On the other hand, the 94-95 E500 was influenced alot by Porsche and is very performance oriented as well as the AMG C43. The C43 has the 5-speed auto while the E500 has the 4-speed. I like the 4-speed cause I can shift on my own, but I think there would be an advantage to having a 5-speed.

The C43 has some cheap touches in the interior while the E500 is a pure German interior that has the hand-made feel to it.

With some serious rubber on the E500, would the C43 be out performed? You can get 275s on the E500 without to much problem while the C can handle much wider then 255s. Would operating costs be more on the C43 or the E500.

They are both worth about the same in the current market, while the C43 could be found with less miles and it is a newer car. The E500 has the raw power and an original price of $80k. I haven't sold my car yet, but since we are considering the possibilities, I became more focused on the 2.

The only reason I ask is that people down the street from us just got an E55 (and his wife got an S500 last year) and wants to sell his C43 or the E500 (its kind of wierd living in a neighboorhood where a 190E and MLs are considered a common cars) and my dad likes them both. (I wish I were home to test drive them with him )

------------------
Chirag (Charlie) Patel

- 99 Mercedes-Benx ML 430 V8 w/custom TV, Video, UHF, speaker system
- 93 190E 2.6 (4-sale) w/ an amp, equalizer, and CD-changer, integrated w. stock stereo for integrated cellular phone speaker system
- had a 93 190E m103 3.2, 5-speed trans,
- had a 88 300E 2.6
- had a 84 300TD w/275k+ miles
- 2001 C-Class - Maybe (if 190E sells)

I would go for the E500 for sure. E500/500E is very unique Mercedes. And in the future, there might not be one Mercedes that's as unique as this one. Sure C43 has alot more goodies, and might be more nimble to toss around when compare stock-to-stock with E500, in the long run, I think you will be more satisfy with E500's rare-breed nature, and excellent power.

Andy Kuo

------------------

• 1992 Mercedes-Benz 400SE
  
• Pearl Grey/Black Leather
  

ICQ#26950002
Mercedes Owners ICQ ActiveList ID#61730549
Mercedes S-Class Page
http://drive.to/akry
http://akry.homestead.com

I am also obviously a 500E fan; what did it for me is not only the power and handling but the uniqueness of the thing. Remember; the car was built to be the factory answer the AMG Hammer; the car had no influence from AMG beyond the fact that assuredly the MBZ engineers probably bought a real Hammer and tore it down for ideas. The car was constructed of MBZ parts, but the parts were SPECIFIED by Porsche, who did all the chassis development work. Further, 500Es were handbuilt in the very same Porsche factory that the legendary 959s were built, and by the same hands. The cars arrived at the Stuttgart Porsche factory as body-in-white 300Es, and were then modified by Porsche to allow for the M119 drivetrain and given the flared fenders and custom suspension bits too numerous to list. Jeez, they were even manually pushed from station to station on carts! They were then shipped back to Mercedes for final assembly, then took another trip across town back to Porsche for final testing, tuning and elimination of ANY defects. In short, a handbuilt car.

History is one thing; driving is another. Since I do mucho highway driving, if I were to pick between a 500E and C43 on this criteria alone it'd be a no-brainer; the 500E OWNS the highway. But around town, no doubt a C43 is a nimble dance partner.

Drive both, then decide. It's the only way you'll feel good about the decision.

------------------
Best regards, Michael
'92 500E
'88 300TE

Yeah. E500 is so unique in its own way thought not as nimble as the AMG Cs. It's its flared fender look that I like so very very much. Everytime I see one I want one. If opportunity comes I think I will get one & modified for leisure fun!

Best regards,
ET

Having owned both a 500E and C36 (and driven a couple of C43's) my nutshell is that they are different animals. Which is better depends heavily on what you find most appealing/important. In order of age:

The 500E/E500:
The car is heavy and it is evident in its handling feel. Though it can outhandle many cars designed solely for corner-conquering don't expect the feel of a Miata. Tossable is not something that comes to mind. Gas mileage and tire wear are the side effects of gonzo power and high curb weight. In hot climates with aggressive use high engine temp can be a problem but only under the most extreme conditions. That is about it for "down side". Everything else is upside. Power...it hits about as hard as the C43 does at its best off the line but when that V8 hits about 3500rpm and the valve timing kicks in it will destroy a C-AMG no problem. (no matter what RPM the C is at) From any highway speed the 500E is nearly untouchable. They are super "tight" after 100K+ miles which cannot be said of W202 AMG cars. The paint, interior fit/finish, and whatnot are leagues ahead of the W202's. By the numbers...handling 8.0 (on stock tires)8.5-9.0 on 17"s, brakes 8.0-9.0 depending on aluminum calipers vs 600SL ware, power 9.5, build quality 9.5. One other thing to consider is that a W202 AMG will depreciate more than any 500E/E500 will simply because it is newer and depreciating quicker all things being equal. In my opinion, all things are not equal and the 500E will ALWAYS be more of a classic than the C43/36's.

The C43:
This car is much lighter and has a more nimble handling feel. Though the raw numbers may not be much different (especially if the 500E has 17"s) the impression is of a smaller/lighter more tossable car. Handling is also more gradual/forgiving on the AMG's. The C43 leaps off the line hard but does not pull comparably after that. Its brakes will have the most bite of just about any MB available but that becomes more tire limited given the brakes huge potential. (read: buy good rubber!) The C cars will have more modern options (HID headlights, 5-speed tranny, etc) but the build quality is nowhere near the older cars in my experience. Not just the materials used... Rating by the numbers...handling 8.5, brakes 9.5, power 8.5-9.0, build quality 7.0. The C's are more nimble, scoot nicely off the line, and are more modern.

Final thoughts...the power from the 500E is just plain seductive/intoxicating. The handbuilt nature of the 500E is also a big plus. They eat gas, tires, and about anything on the highway. With better tires and some very minor tweaks they can match (or beat as our Shop Forum members have tested) the E55. That alone is noteworthy but I'm sure the same debate arose between 6.3 and 6.9 owners decades ago. The C43 will be more modern and have a lighter handling feel. They "feel" just as powerful as the 500E due to how they step off the line but under the test gear (read: GTech) the 500E's are just plain faster. If all of your driving is in tight stop/go traffic you might be better served by a C43. If you have lots of highway miles, the 500E is the ultimate stock benz. Having had both, in retrospect the C-AMG's are fun but there is something about the 500E that captures your heart. Styling I leave up to your own opinion but its one of those classic vs new/modern issues. Bottom line....drive both and see which one of these fine machines presses your buttons the best. If you can't decide I'll sell you my C36 and get another 500E.

Guess that casts my vote...Lee

Thanxs for the info, up in Delaware/Philly area, there are alot of small roads where I take delight in the driving a car at its max thrugh the twists. On the highway, I love when a car handles a 4-lane change at the slightest ease. I am truly a nimble-minded guy but love the power. The C43 has 4k miles on it while the 94 E500 has 42k miles on it. The only problem is that when Winter time comes around, we are going to have a couple of problems. When it snows even the lightest, we get an icy mix due to the hill-like terrain in our area. I just wanted to know is the ASR as effective as today's ESP. I remember we bought our 93 190E 2.6 during the blizard if 93 and when nobody wanted a RWD car. We tested both the ASR and non-ASR 2.6 and didn't find to much of a difference except that the ASR version applied the brakes earlier then you would. Once the ASR kicks in though, it was relatively too late. The ESP worked much better but it still isn't a 4wd car. We really don't want to be driving these vehicles in winter-like conditions, but it doesn't snow that much around here. I don't see a need to have to have a spare car like we did with the 190E. I have driven a C43 before, but not an E500/500E yet. I liked the V8 power but It just didn't feel any quicker then an M3. The C43 felt powerful but it also felt like it was trying hard to keep up with an M3. While driving an M3 it felt like it enjoyed racing and didn't feel overworked. That was when we compared the M3 and C43 side-by-side courtesy of the Dealer who had a used 98 M3 sedan (auto) traded in (for an E55 too.)

But the car really isn't mine (I wish it were) but rather my dads. He likes to cruise at high speeds (80-90) and isn't as much of a handling geek as I am. He would rather enjoy fast 0-60s w/o (no brkae stances for him though) and beat the pants off a vette, Jag, Caddy, or Bimmer. He likes the creture comforts that a car has inside and functionality is very important to him. I believe that is why an E500 would better suit his needs. The only thing is he is tired of the less-modern (I am going to say boxy for the lack of a better word) of the w124 and w201. For that matter he doesn't like the w202 as much as the new w220 (which he is still on the waiting list for) and I am wondering he just might be better off in an S-class then an E500.

He was interested enough to call me and let me know of the offers on the 2 cars and he has become impatient on waiting for the S-class V12 to come out. My mom is starting to get use to the ML430, and isn't complaining as much about it. So I think she is happy with that and isn't going for a new C-class anymore.

With that said we have 2 cars and 3 (my folks and me when I am off college this summer, then I will have up here in DC for the rest of the years) drivers and Someone is getting a new car. I want to sell the 190E and move into something a little more "daring" and am seriously considering a used 96+ M3 (thay wanted to know if I would be happy with the Company Truck, me in a F350 Super Duty Crew Cab do not mix ) with a 5-speed manual. Right now, everybody knows what they want, it just depends on how soon the delear gets their S600 in stock.

If he doesn't get the S600 this summer I think he might go after that E500. Who knows, wait and see I guess.

Thanxs for the input.

------------------
Chirag (Charlie) Patel

- 99 Mercedes-Benx ML 430 V8 w/custom TV, Video, UHF, speaker system
- 93 190E 2.6 (4-sale) w/ an amp, equalizer, and CD-changer, integrated w. stock stereo for integrated cellular phone speaker system
- had a 93 190E m103 3.2, 5-speed trans,
- had a 88 300E 2.6
- had a 84 300TD w/275k+ miles
- 2001 C-Class - Maybe (if 190E sells)

Have him drive the E500 on a cool evening. I guarantee he'll be happy...EG. I'd wager the S600 would be more comfortable and spacious than the E500 but when it came down to "pants-ing" other cars, the E500 will do that in spades. As I've said before, killing a showroom fresh Vette is one of the greatest perverse pleasures of 500E/E500 ownership. The E500 will also slaughter the M3 (even the manual) unless the M-car is packing a blower. I've noticed and tested that the C43's are not going any faster than the C36's despite 100lbs less weight and more power in a theoretically flatter curve. Don't know why they are underachieving but I've seen too many doing it to ignore it as happenstance or bad drivers. Then again, Michael's 500E pulled off a 1/4 mile victory against Gary's E55 so it isn't an isolated incedent with that engine family. I saw the timeslip, Michael did launch a bit better than Gary but it wouldn't of mattered much as the 500E just kept opening the gap. Once that M119.974 is "up on its cams" there isn't much that will catch you.

Hope this helps...Lee

Hi Lee,

I don't know if u already known this or not but according to my local service manager, Michael's 92 500E is probably the fastest model yr for 500E/E500. As for the E55 in N.A. is running a rather softer(comfortable) mode than its Euro counterpart. A simple code change can solve that(I am not sure if it will be exactly like the Euro one but the change in throttle response and surge forward feel are so apparant that it makes u wonder how far programing can change a car's behavior).
Also, the new 3v engine has somekind of protactive mechanism/program and is very keen on protecting engine (at least when its new) when suspecious variables are detected and this affects its performance sometimes as well. And not to mention that Gary's boy hasn't been properly run in as Michael's.

Too bad I can't be there to play with the guys. So Garry mabe u can go to ur dealer and find out about the code chage and maybe do a retest with Michael!? There is no doubt in my mind that Michael is a great driver with a quick car but we still got a chance to take him down, haha J/K.

P.S. Noah, have u change the code on ur car?

Happy motoring,

ET

ET,

A simple programing can SURE change a car's behavior. However, sometimes, it will vary on different cars(the same goes for Audi S4, with little tweak on programing, and little tweak on Turbo, 300hp mark can be break with out even put in a new mod part in).

As someone already mentioned, 3-valve twin spark engines stick to the factory performance figure rather then out performe factory figure as in the case of old DOHC V8/V12/even L6. Not that E55 is not a good performer. In fact, it's the best you can get as daily driver, in any road condition(except snow, I guess... ). But 500E(espeically 1992)just has that little more HP on cool days....

BTW, ET, which dealer do you usually take the car in for service?? Just wondering....

Andy Kuo

------------------

• 1992 Mercedes-Benz 400SE
  
• Pearl Grey/Black Leather
  

ICQ#26950002
Mercedes Owners ICQ ActiveList ID#61730549
Mercedes S-Class Page
http://drive.to/akry
http://akry.homestead.com

Hi Andy,

How is going? According to the 2000 brochure the 55 is still the quiest car in the entire Mercedes line up & I will sure like to run some friendly comparison with an E500, haha. so is there anybody with an 500 in Vancouver area!?

BTW, I always go to the one on Broadway. Jimmy(service manager)& Ed(Tech director) did the code change for me.

Happy motoring,

Ed/ET

Well, you new this would generate alot of responses. I have a c43 and have to honestly say the two cars aren't really comparable the 500 great car not high in tork but killer mid range so for highway as the guys have said you really cant beet it plus with the fender flares they look super aggresive. the c43 very snappy leaps of the line mid range ok higher rpm flat which to be honest I think is detuned by the computer with a much less aggresive timing curve in the higher rpm's I honestly feel the car has great potential if somebody ever decides to make a chip. If money isn't an issue I love my C43 and wouldn't trade it for the world , but as everyone said I don't do alot of high way driving. My C43 has taken a bunch of mustangs and grand nationals. I've seen some 500e's run at the drag strip always makes me laugh all the kids bust on the big mercedes and then it just ripps them apart they just kind of shut up and stand then thats when the 30 something old guy (me ) next to them says "see told you so"

C43 and E55 of course!!


---WILL

ET,

I have NO COMMENTS on Broadway's service. I am sure they are quit nice to their BIG Clients(E55, W220 S-Class, anything above E430). But they don't treat me with the same respect I excected from Mercedes dealer to owners. I sit there, wait for 1 hour just for someone to look after me??? I told the front desk, and ask them to have at least ONE service advisor to come help me...you know what kinda of responde I got?? "I am sorry, all the advisors are with customers right now!!" when I saw at least 2 are free, sitting there chatting?? Ya...with customers right now?? As if I am NOT a customer?? Well, guess I am NOT a customer there any more....

I strongly advice you pay Richmond Mercedes a visit(ask for Nelson or C.C. Cheng), and you will truely feel(at least they make me feel so)that service has never been so easy and well, if you called it, user-friendly(or should I say owner-friendly).

JEFF,

Alot of ricers out there, when seen a 500E, they take it lightly as they think it's just another bulky Mercedes 4-door-box-on-wheel. And that's the way I like it. Exact sleeper look is what facinate me about 500Es.

Even I got pick(why'o why, I asked)by some young guy in SLK230 a while back ago. He pulled next to me at the light, rev his 4 bangers in Neutral. As I am on the outerlane, and the lane will merge in a block or so. So, I put into 1st, once the light is green, I nail it and dust that SLK. Later we pull over and talked. That guy thought that I have a S320/300SE because he didn't know 400SE was imported ONLY in 1992. And he still wouldn't believe me 'til I opened up the hood, and show him that DOHC V8.....

Be aware, 500E is a killer....

Andy Kuo

------------------

• 1992 Mercedes-Benz 400SE
  
• Pearl Grey/Black Leather
  

ICQ#26950002
Mercedes Owners ICQ ActiveList ID#61730549
Mercedes S-Class Page
http://drive.to/akry
http://akry.homestead.com

I think the service at the Broadway dealership is quite good actually. The only other place that I have ever taken my Mercedes for service is the new dealership in Burnaby on Boundary Road, where I found the service to be VERY bad, and very "impersonal". I've never tried out the the Richmond dealership for service (I'm assuming you guys are talkin' about the one in the Richmond Auto Mall). However, I have had experience w/ C. C. Cheng, who use to be a mechanic w/ the BMW dealership next door. He was very friendly, and gave personal attention to my BMW. I would highly recommend him.

------------------
1995 Mercedes-Benz E420 (W124 - Black Pearl/Black)

Hi Andy & Duck,

I think the most unfriendly face in Broadway Mercedes is Susan at the desk, haha.
J/K, (I trust u guys won't tell her about my post, haha). I can imaging why u might be upset because I do notice that they are pretty busy people & most of them have poker face on(due to the work load I presume). But once u get to know them a bit better u know they are dedicated people. And I really don't think they will treat u less because u bring in a small benz. Every Mercede is a Mercedes.

Nevertheless, I will check out the service at Richmand if possible. Boy, still more than 10000 km to go before my 1st schedaled service... How did they do this still puzzles me.

Happy motoring,

Ed/ET