I found some info in the National Response Plan published in Dec of 2004 that would seem to point to the Feds screwing up. The plan, on page 44 says

Standard procedures regarding requests for assistance
may be expedited or, under extreme circumstances,
suspended in the immediate aftermath of an event of
catastrophic magnitude.
■ Identified Federal response resources will deploy and
begin necessary operations as required to commence
life-safety activities.
■ Notification and full coordination with States will occur,
but the coordination process must not delay or impede
the rapid deployment and use of critical resources.
States are urged to notify and coordinate with local
governments regarding a proactive Federal response.


Notice where it says that under extreem circumstances, procedures may be suspended. So why did the Feds not move in on day one with or with out an invitation.

BTW the link to the entire document can be found at the FEMA www site and just do a search for "national response plan". I think this means someone dropped the ball.

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- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Nothing like ignoring the facts.....

Like the Governer of LA delayed acting for 24 hours AFTER Bush wanted to step in...

ANd besides...its not a disaster until it happens...

and until it happens its not a federal issue but a local one...

Try pointing yoour fingers at the Governer....a Democrat. or even the Mayor.

Nothing like letting your liberal bias get in the way of what really happened.



To quote Botnst on another thread related to this which I think hits the nail on the head....


Everybody in elected office is playing musical chairs, waiting for teh music to stop. It is premature to definitively assert who'll be left standing. I think (unfortunately) Blanco will be one left standing because of her refusal to federalize relief in advance of the storm and her recalcitrant behavior immediately afterword.

The real culprits are the people of Louisiana and NOLA. Why should we wait for the Corps of Engineers to deal with our problem? Instead of addressing it, we have, for 100 years, increasingly ceded that responsibility to the federal government. The federal government has lost interest in levees and the state is out of the habit of paying its own way.

If science dictated the course of events, the levees would be flattened and the area would return to seasonal flooding. Architecture and transportation would be forced to adapt to the environment rather than vice-versa (and we would follow the same course in Pacific cities concerning earthquakes, too). Instead, we rebuild the same mistakes and blame it on another generation of politicians.

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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

Cute response

I am addressing what happened afterward. According to the NRP, the Feds do not need to wait for an invitation. They can just show up. and get to work. So it really does not matter that the Mayor, Governor or Peter Pan waited for 24 hours or 24 years.

Try responding with out the name calling. It really gets old.

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2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

You know I can link you the ones you made towards me while I was away on vacation...but thats besides the point...toss crap my way you should to expect to get it back...

Besides...you are the one using partisan fingerpointing and ignoring the fact of who is first responsible for NOLA....#1 the Mayor...#2 the LA Governor...

which you chose to completely ignore because they are democrats and leapfrog right to Bush...just becasue its the democrat way.

If you have any concept of what it takes to organise mass movements helpers and supplies to send them into an area that NOBODY had any idea of the extent of due to power, cell phone and telepone lines being down...

and Ignor the fact that most of the victims are victims becasue they refused to leave when they were told to leave...that wasn't Bushes fault...that was their own fault.

You can't muster National guard troops....gather massive relief and supplies and fly it in all in hours..it takes days...

Many Guardsmen were driven in trucks....Army trucks...these things are governed, most of them anyway and won't go 90 mph...do the math of milage and speed...many of these will only go 45 mph...

The LA governer still refuses to force the fatheads who refuse to leave New Orleans to go.....thats not Bushes fault...but you can count on him being blamed if Colera breaks out and they die.

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

My statement was in response to your typically bombastic and insulting responses to though who disagree with you.

Be that as it may, as I recall, troops were in NY the day off the attack. To me it seems to be a matter of will, not a matter of ability.

The airport was useable the day after the hurricane, the military could have easily air lifted in aid and assistance if told to do so.

Numerous new agencies were reporting before during and after the hurricane hit so the knowledge of what happened was readily available.

No, the people did not leave. I am not saying it was a smart move but my guess is most of them had no idea what they were in for. I do not feel it is appropriate to sentence people to death just because they make a bad choice. They may have seen other people survive hurricanes (look at Miami for instance) and did not see the difference.

The way I interpret the FEMA NRP I(which you still have not addressed) is that the Feds do not need a invitation to come in. If that's the case, whether or not the mayor and/or governor asked for assistance or when they asked for assistance is irrelevant. People were dying by the thousands and the Feds should have moved in quite a bit faster then they did.

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Mr Bombastic...man you need to look in the mirror dude...


You have any idea the time it takes to #1 organise troops..#2 gather gear #3 get it there....

Where was the LA NG and why that Gov Blanco not doing her job...

Why are you ignoring the fact that its #1 the Mayors responsibility....#2 The Governors responsibility if its to big for the Mayor...and then maybe it gets to the Federal level....

Blanco tragged her feet for 24 hours before giving an answer to Bush to help...and this was before the Hurricane made landfall...before anyone had any idea how bad it would end up being.

Hell you would have been the first one screaming if Bush Marched right in and took charge without the formalities...but then thats the Democrat way....igore your own parties mistakes and point fingers at people where not the first second lines of responsibility...

Another factoid .....The US army is prohibited by federal law from domestic police actions that were seriously needed with the looters...and even then active duty troops need time to be moved...

But then thats what the Guard does....Blame the governer Blanco for dragging her feet getting them their...she commands them. THey have thousands in LA


Did you ever spend time in the Military? and just exactly how do you think you can move mass numbers of troops supplies and transport them in the Blink of an eye over vast distances?

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

What do you think the bold part of the phrase means?

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-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

I take the bold language to mean that the state is supposed to let the locality know that, like it or not, the feds are moving in. And, since the federal government performed flawlessly in this whole affair , it also means that FEMA got together with all fiftie states and the District of Columbia ahead of time so that everybody would be on the same page when disaster struck. What are the odds that W's FEMA did that advance work?

See, this is where you fall into that whole "Bush is an idiot" trap. I know you didn't specifically say that but the intent is there. You assume that because you think poorly of the man that every thing that happens somehow relates to him. Of course there is an agreement between FEMA and LA, as there is with all 50 states and all the territories the US has. You are assuming that because a guy whom you have disdain for is the head executive of the country that nobody else who works for the government is going to what the law calls for. Essentially the majority of people working in Government are the same ones who were there when Clinton was president and before. And yes, they do get together with every state and are supposed to be on the same page when disaster strikes. As is pointed out in the National Response Plan that David was so kind to point us all to.

As a matter of fact, DHS founding and the subsequent reorganization of various government department was a bipartisan Congressional move. I believe one of the main authors was Joe Lieberman, whom I have a good deal of respect for.


As I read through various news items today it becomes more clear in my mind. Preparation for the hurricane was not begun early and was not done well. Lacksadaisacal is the best word I can think of to describe it. There was response from all 3 levels of Gov. - for the hurricane - the day before the hurricane and directly afterward. NO had dodged several such hurricanes in the past, they became complacent. What wasn't planned for was the breaking of the levee. It quickly overwhelmed any response that was available. Delayed response from those outside the zone was in large part due to scope of disaster coupled with logistical challenges on the part of responders.

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-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

I assume no such thing. Nor did I say any such thing. The only things I know about W's approach to FEMA are that he appointed unqualified people to run the agency and de-emphasized the importance of the agency. Whether's W's decisions w/r FEMA caused any of the troubles with Katrina is not yet known.Again with the assumptions! I never said that FEMA didn't coordinate effectively with the states. I asked what are the odds it happened. I say those odds are low, but I could be proven wrong. I make no assumption either way. Why do you keep saying I assume things that I haven't said?None of which proves anything about the performance of W's FEMA.I don't blame W for that, but I think W does share blame for de-emphasizing FEMA's emergency response capabilities.

"And, since the federal government performed flawlessly in this whole affair , it also means that FEMA got together with all fiftie states and the District of Columbia ahead of time so that everybody would be on the same page when disaster struck. What are the odds that W's FEMA did that advance work?"

Your words, not mine

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone