GM to cut 30k jobs and 9 plants by 08 - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

boneheaddoctor · #16 11-21-2005, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ara T.

I agree on the Cobalt, it's actually a solid lil car that scored better in crash tests than its Japanese counterparts (corolla, civic).

The Tuner community loves that car almost universally.....thats no small task...they basicly hate the civic and have for a few years.

boneheaddoctor · #17 11-21-2005, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koop

The big 3 had 70% of US market share in 1990 and has about 55% now. Of that only DCX has picked up any market share, about 1%. Not everyone wanted big SUV's.

Then why did they buy them if they didn't want them?

GottaDiesel · #18 11-21-2005, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ara T.

I agree on the Cobalt, it's actually a solid lil car that scored better in crash tests than its Japanese counterparts (corolla, civic).

Yeah but a Toy or Honda are made to run 200K with little maint. You think you'll be seeing those cobalts with 200K?? Right.

The cars, for the most part, are junk. But that doesn't mean the company can't make money and keep building cars.

If there are two Saturn plants, and they are closing one. That means, at least to me, that 50% fewer Saturns are being sold than they thought.

That's a lot of money.

But hey, what do I know. I bought the stock just based on their "commited to the dividend" speech. Which I'm sure is a pile of horse crap, but how the heck can pass up 10% on the yield alone, plus whatever money is made on the play itself. It's a friggn' no-brainer in my book from an investment point of view.

boneheaddoctor · #19 11-21-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ara T.

I agree on the Cobalt, it's actually a solid lil car that scored better in crash tests than its Japanese counterparts (corolla, civic).

GM haters will argue otherwise but The Cobalt is a better built car than most of the competition builds these days...The Corola and a bland boring thing..most of the civics have become bloated heavy and slow....this years Civic Si was the first one in years to raise even an eyebrow among the tuners....you don't see Yugo Tuners...or Kia Rio tuners, or even Corola tuner, but the Cobalt..it will whoop butt in the SS form...with plenty of untapped potiential.....and aftermarket tuners supplying parts enthusiasticly...

boneheaddoctor · #20 11-22-2005, 08:38 AM

Has GM commented upon what it will be cutting non-union wages? How much the non-union fatcats will be giving up in benifits? How about how much in the way of Bonuses it will be paying out to the corporate fat cats this year? and how much were paid last year and the year before.

I'm willing to bet the fat cats get record bonuses this year....to add to their already over generous wages...while the people at the bottom of the pay scale get it up the butt without so much as a courtisy reach-around.

raymr · #21 11-22-2005, 10:52 AM

I dunno. The Cobalt is a blob of a little car. GM needs an iconic trendsetter at this point, and Cobalt is not it. It breaks no new ground; its a non-descript non-car with still too many cheapo bean-counter cues. All from a company that can do so much better (and does, overseas).

The only thing good about it is the coupe tail lights, which evoke some of the Chevy classics, and the fact that it's not bad for a GM product. As such it can't compete with other economy class offerings in terms of brand recognition, quality, or warranty. This car will pretty much just canibalize sales from other GM divisions.

boneheaddoctor · #22 11-22-2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

I dunno. The Cobalt is a blob of a little car. GM needs an iconic trendsetter at this point, and Cobalt is not it. It breaks no new ground; its a non-descript non-car with still too many cheapo bean-counter cues. All from a company that can do so much better (and does, overseas).

The only thing good about it is the coupe tail lights, which evoke some of the Chevy classics, and the fact that it's not bad for a GM product. As such it can't compete with other economy class offerings in terms of brand recognition, quality, or warranty. This car will pretty much just canibalize sales from other GM divisions.

Interior is far better than the competition....remember the competition isn't mercedes nor BMW. Performance beats most of the competition......take a look at the bean counter cues in the competition...there are plenty in every single one....do you overlook them on your preffered ride? I will wager you do......This isn't a Maybach after all.

rg2098 · #23 11-22-2005, 11:01 AM

I personally know of a 2002 Pontiac Bonneville with about 175k on it with only one problem, one of the back lights in the radio burned out, but the radio still works fine. It has never been back to the dealer and still looks brand new. The Impala that just went out of production after 5 years scored better on 5 year durability tests then the Toyota Camery.

crash9 · #24 11-22-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Has GM commented upon what it will be cutting non-union wages? How much the non-union fatcats will be giving up in benifits? How about how much in the way of Bonuses it will be paying out to the corporate fat cats this year? and how much were paid last year and the year before.

I'm willing to bet the fat cats get record bonuses this year....to add to their already over generous wages...while the people at the bottom of the pay scale get it up the butt without so much as a courtisy reach-around.

Keep thinking this way and you're going to become a democrat. Get back to your roots and support the law of the jungle. Fat-cats rule - worker bees are plentiful - profits are all that count.
Come on man, they're playing you with all this "family values" crap. It's a smoke screen, why can't all of you employees see it. You're supporting your own undoing.
Toyota puts 27hr. into building a car - GM puts in 34 and pays high school graduates $64.00 an hour in wages and benefits. They still can't save any money. What would you expect? It was a good run, but a short one.

boneheaddoctor · #25 11-22-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crash9

Keep thinking this way and you're going to become a democrat. Get back to your roots and support the law of the jungle. Fat-cats rule - worker bees are plentiful - profits are all that count.
Come on man, they're playing you with all this "family values" crap. It's a smoke screen, why can't all of you employees see it. You're supporting your own undoing.
Toyota puts 27hr. into building a car - GM puts in 34 and pays high school graduates $64.00 an hour in wages and benefits. They still can't save any money. What would you expect? It was a good run, but a short one.

THose reports are crap....my father worked for GM for 30 years......in a skilled trade..(Journeyman Millwright) ..not assembly line work....He never saw $40K the last year he worked before he died with overtime, his benifits did not ammount to all that much either.

I seriously want to see who gets bonuses this year and how much...and what they use to justify bonuses in a year with record losses....and how that is not some crime somewhere.

crash9 · #26 11-22-2005, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

I seriously want to see who gets bonuses this year and how much...and what they use to justify bonuses in a year with record losses....and how that is not some crime somewhere.

You know I'm being sarcastic - executive compensation is off the chart. Why? As these guys should really know more about the potential for their businesses, why do they rape and steal from them? The only conclusion I can come to is that they're not really long term bullish about the economy's potential and are getting what ever they can while the getting is good. Sickening

raymr · #27 11-22-2005, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Interior is far better than the competition....remember the competition isn't mercedes nor BMW. Performance beats most of the competition......take a look at the bean counter cues in the competition...there are plenty in every single one....do you overlook them on your preffered ride? I will wager you do......This isn't a Maybach after all.

My preferred ride is my 20 year old girl. Oops you know I mean my car

. My perceptions of GM as a car builder are marred by many experiences, the most recent of which was a rental Bonneville, complete with the most uncomfortable seating for 5 people I have ever witnessed. Nothing like spending a week with your knees straddling the steering wheel in a full-size car. Rather sad.

So maybe that taints my impressions of the Cobalt. It just needs to be really good to make up for all the past disappointments. If they wanted to they can build a 4-seater equivalent of the Sky or Solstice, and I think Saturn has something in the works along those lines. Now that would turn some heads.

rg2098 · #28 11-22-2005, 11:52 AM

My father works for GM on the engineering level and I attend a select engineering program at a GM facility and let me tell you there are no bonuses this year to start with. Also a big problem is the level 8 engineers that drive company cars (insurance, fuel, EVERYTHING covered by GM) and have basically retired on the job and do nothing because theres nothing for them to do. Also the staggering medical / retirement costs that amount to about $1500 per car sold. Considering what they do to save pennys a car you have no idea what $1500 would do.

boneheaddoctor · #29 11-22-2005, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rg2098

My father works for GM on the engineering level and I attend a select engineering program at a GM facility and let me tell you there are no bonuses this year to start with. Also a big problem is the level 8 engineers that drive company cars (insurance, fuel, EVERYTHING covered by GM) and have basically retired on the job and do nothing because theres nothing for them to do. Also the staggering medical / retirement costs that amount to about $1500 per car sold. Considering what they do to save pennys a car you have no idea what $1500 would do.

Tell that to people who retired after 30+ years working their butts off....

Survivor benifits are quat...why should my mom have to pay for medical insurance she is entitled to after my father worked his but off for over 30 years and suffered from ailments agrivated if not casued by that work before he died.

A FYI my mothers income including SSI along with GM retiree survivor benifits totals a whopping $700 a month....GM wants her to come up with that money from where?

koop · #30 11-22-2005, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Tell that to people who retired after 30+ years working their butts off....

Survivor benifits are quat...why should my mom have to pay for medical insurance she is entitled to after my father worked his but off for over 30 years and suffered from ailments agrivated if not casued by that work before he died.

A FYI my mothers income including SSI along with GM retiree survivor benifits totals a whopping $700 a month....GM wants her to come up with that money from where?

Well since you were complaining about moms huge estate(death) tax bill I guess she's got enough to cover it.