Thanks for posting this link. Wouldn’t it be great to be a scholar of the Old testament, or the New one for that matter!?! It would make for a very serene profession.

I remember from my school studies that at the time Christ lived, there were many many many supposed profits. The death and resurrection part of the narrative were said by one of my profs to have originated starting thousands of years before Christ. I did a Google search to supplement my failing memory and a sources said that deities to have gone through resurrection include Osiris, Adonis, Tammuz, Zalmoxis, phoenix, Jesus, Baldr, and Odin.

The article went on to state that “Female deities who passed into the kingdom of death and returned include Inanna (also known as Ishtar) whose cult dates to 4000 BC and Persephone, the central figure of the Eleusinian Mysteries, whose cult may date to 1700 BC as the unnamed goddess worshiped in Crete.”

I’m unfamiliar with many of these deities, but the roll call provides evidence that the idea of resurrection existed thousands of years prior to JC and the portrail was well developed by the time it was incorporated into the legend of JC. It has probably the greatest dramatic appeal of any part of the narrative.

If one were to take death and resurrection as a sign of being touched by a god, what of all those who have gone through this by accident or as a necessary part of modern surgery? It would “prove” that there are many son’s and daughters of god…

BTW, Kerry, in a previous thread I wrote that speaking in tongues was done for dramatic appeal, I think there may have been a misunderstanding. I wasn’t characterizing your comment as done for dramatic appeal, but rather that the act of speaking in tongues as a tool of drama.

Odin was often portrayed as the grey-bearded old man with one eye, his face hidden by a hood or a broad brimmed hat, because he had cast an eye into Mimir's well in return for a drink of its "immense wisdom". Even after losing an eye, Odin's love of wisdom was so profound that he was prepared to sacrafice himself to plumb its depths. He gained insight by hanging himself for nine days from Yggdrasil, the cosmic tree (imagery: think of the movie Conan when he was tied to the Tree of Woe). This voluntary death, and his subsequent resurrection by means of magic gave Odin greater wisdom than anyone else. It is possible that the obvious parallel between this myth and the Crucifixion gave Christianity a head-start in northern Europe.

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I love this stuff. A lot of it can be seen as ways to illustrate the ideology of the culture from which it sprang.

I do like Greek and Roman and even Norse mythology a lot better.

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I did take it that way. I think it is sometimes done as a tool of religious drama, especially when a religious leader uses it to impress his or her followers. But it is also done in private for other reasons. I'm interested in the non-cognitive components of these private uses.

I don't think there's any evidence that Jesus spoke in tongues.

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Interesting. Care to illustrate the other reason or examples of non-cognitive components?

Nor do i. It was easier to reply to the previous here than to find the other thread....But it would have added something big if he did speak in tongues…..but only after resurrection...

The language/sound producing part of the brain in most of our lives is closely connected to the meaningful production of sounds. In other words, we utter sounds that communicate in a social context. Only rarely do we utter meaningless sounds. This is quite a constrictive process whereby the social necessity of shared meaning impinges upon individual freedom of sound production.
Thinking is closely connected to these meaningful sounds resulting in the fact that thoughts and words become indistinguishable. The private use of glossalalia disconnects meaningful words and sounds resulting in a thoughtless mind.
The best way I know to illustrate this is insomnia. If I can't sleep because my mind is racing, thinking about a million things, I can speak in tongues and the thoughts disappear resulting in almost immediate sleep. So I think that speaking in tongues is a kind of shortcut to the kind of experience that mystics seek in meditation. It's a Pentecostal Nirvana. Part of the reason why I think both traditional Nirvana and Pentecostal Nirvana is appealing is that it frees the individual from the influence of others, producing a religious liberation of sorts. This liberation can only occur in two possible ways. Either it involves no words or sounds at all (the Zen experience) or it involves words and sounds that mean nothing to anyone(the Pentecostal experience). In either instance the 'individual' is freed from society.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

.
Because of what you said I tried a little experiment with amazing results.

Instead of trying to practice quiet or mantra meditation I used sounds
that came to mind at the time.

I naturally cycled thru several sounds, more aggressive and guttural at first, ending with very southing sounds with lots of s, o, and w sounds.

These sounds seemed to flow naturally from my mind/body.
And it was not a forced progression from aggressive to soothing, but
happened very spontaneously, and naturally.

I dropped to a very deep level of meditation more quickly than usual.

And I finally understand why I like to meditate with loud metal music.

It is the unintelligible, glossolalia like sounds from the vocalist in certain
metal bands.

Dude, thanks very much for posting what you did.
You may have changed the way I meditate.

But I bet anyone that happens to catch me while I am doing it is
gonna think I have really lost my mind.

Thank you
RichC



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When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix

J.Z. Knight would have charged about $5k for that insight. Maybe I should start a Buddhacostal cult.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Bad boys, Bad boys, whatcha gonna do when Ramtha comes for you ....





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__________________

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix

In modern times, religion is to generate money. Long ago it was to keep control of the masses.