Porous isn't a good thing.
Keep in mind how much time the (any) aircraft spends in potential icing conditions vs time that it's not.

PRE-combustion actually. Compressed, and quite toasty.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

Did I miss something? Was icing a mentioned as a possibility in the Continental Express crash?

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

Reported by some in the area I believe.
Always a possibility in those (cold and wet) conditions.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

Keep in mind how much any liquid weighs and how much space it takes up.
Weight, is everything in aviation. Space is critical as well.

Why have all that weight taking up all that space when you rarely need it. Not to mention, given the circumstances in which the ice is forming (and where). That’s one heck of a plumbing system to keep a wing coated in hopes of prevention.

Rubber “boots” on the leading edge is pretty popular in general/mid size aircraft. Easy to spot as they are usually black in color. There’s a simple pump (on most piston engine planes) connected to a cycle timer that pumps them up just enough to shatter off any build up before it becomes an issue. The system equipment is pretty small and the electrons that run it are even smaller. Some larger systems run compressed bleed ait to the boots. The air is ambient. Not to mention pretty cheep.

Hot air ducting is pretty simple too. It’s what’s on many (larger) corporate jets and most commercial aircraft. Open a valve and hot air heats the wing leading edge from the backside. No freezing. No build up. No problems.

IIRC: The Dash-8 has electric props and pneumatic (boot type) wing and tail de-icing systems.
If icing brought this one down, there’s no telling at this time, why. System not on?…System malfunction?…Cycle time not right?... Conditions just too bad for the system to stay ahead of?.... Who knows…???

I’ll be interested in what becomes of that localizer fluctuation issue myself.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

Hey, LutzTD, apparently the pilot was from Lutz!

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Dan
2005 E320 CDI - 246k
1987 300SDL TD05-16g, Herlevi pump, Elbe manifold, 2.47 LSD - 213k
Past: 1987 300D - 264k

NTSB: Crew reported ice buildup before crash

50 people killed when plane plunges into home in upstate New York


CLARENCE, N.Y. - The crew of Continental Connection Flight 3407 discussed a "significant" buildup of ice on the windshield and wings shortly before the commuter plane plunged out of the night sky and nose-dived into a suburban Buffalo house, federal investigators said Friday.

All 49 people on board and one person on the ground were killed in the first fatal crash of a commercial airliner in the U.S. in 2 1/2 years.

Stephen Chealander, a spokesman for the National Transportation Safety Board, said the cockpit conversations indicated the crew reported poor visibility at 16,000 feet and requested permission from air-traffic controllers to descend.

They said there was "significant ice buildup, ice on the windshield and wings,” Chealander said at a news conference, citing information captured from the "black box" flight data and cockpit voice recorders that were recovered.

Shortly thereafter, the plane went into a series of severe pitches and rolls, Chealander said.

He said the cause of the disaster was under investigation. Other pilots were overheard around the same time Thursday night complaining of ice building up on their planes' wings — a hazard that has caused major crashes in the past.

The twin-turboprop aircraft from Newark, N.J., was coming in for a landing when it went down in light snow and fog around 10:20 p.m. Thursday about five miles short of the Buffalo Niagara International Airport.

Witnesses heard the plane sputtering before it plunged squarely through the roof of a house, its tail section visible through flames shooting at least 50 feet high.

So near..yet so far.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29173163/?GT1=43001

yeh, the memorial service is at the Baptist church at the end of the road I use to access 41 less than 2 miles away. It has been on the news all day yesterday and today. There was also a musician from here that was on the plane.

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1982 300CD Turbo (Otis, "ups & downs") parts for sale
2003 TJ with Hemi (to go anywhere, quickly) sold
2001 Excursion Powerstroke (to go dependably)
1970 Mustang 428SCJ (to go fast)
1962 Corvette LS1 (to go in style)
2001 Schwinn Grape Krate 10spd (if all else fails)

I read yesterday that it was on autopilot when the crash occurred....

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

If you know you're in icing and the performance of the aircraft has degraded...........do you continue on final with normal approach parameters for speed and flap settings? This seems like the kiss of death to me............seems like you'd fly the aircraft at +30 kt. because you just don't know where the stall speed is...........

I had the same thought. Wouldn't it be standard procedure in these kinds of conditions?

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Yikes - sad day at IAH, you can read this event on all the COA employees faces

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BENZ THERE DONE THAThttp://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...c/progress.gif
15 VW Passat TDI
00 E420
98 E300 DT
97 E420 Donor Car - NEED PARTS? PM ME!
97 S500
97 E300D
86 Holden Jackaroo Turbo D
86 300SDL
(o\|/o)

I just flew on this type of plane last fall and it's supposed to be one of the safest. One really cannot know when it's time to go. Indeed a sad day, but at least the people died in an instant. I feel even more sorry for those who were burnt alive in those Australian fires.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

This same phenomenon brought down a commuter in Indiana 15 years ago.

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MBlovr
'59 180 Dad's original
'59 180 Dad's 2nd one
'67 250SE Dad's last one
'59 220 SE My first one
'62 220SE Coupe second one
'89 190E 2.6 5spd third one
'06 E350 4matic (sold)
'10 E350 4matic

Wasnt that the ATR ? IIRC: They had a control surface freeze up/over of some sort. Not sure on that though.

The fleet of which AMR moved down to the Caribbean shortly there after.

(Only to move out the 340s and bring them back up here, just in time for this winter.)
I think they maybe re-wrote some proceedures for that one.

- S

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

Turns out the ATR-42 never could handle ice. The de-icing system had to be partially redesigned and all icing tests had to be recertified behind a water tanker.

The certificate for flying in known icing was pulled for over one year, IIRC.