You're a bit late on that.

Exactly. Even if you say "oh, but you can choose different places for treatment"....that doesn't mean any of them will be any different in cost. Its a lot, and much much more than most could just pay out of pocket....so with no insurance or public health care option, looks like the only option is like has been said, be sick, die, or be bankrupt but possibly healthy. All the other industries have massive amounts of competition, thus actually proving how the public option would help, it would add competition, just like all those other industries have, and would keep costs down and help everyone be able to have health care.

What would you do if all you could buy were SUV's, at hugely unattainable prices, and had no other options but walk? That, is our health care system as it is today.

__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

I voted no assuming this is about the 1800 page pseudo-bill in Congress.

I believe the system is broken and needs reform, but the bill is just a bunch of mumbo jumbo and is mostly about expanding Medicare more than anything else. We need REAL reforms which I have said a dozen times already soI will not

have fun...

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"I have no convictions ... I blow with the wind, and the prevailing wind happens to be from Vichy"

Current
Monika '74 450 SL
BrownHilda '79 280SL
FoxyCleopatra '99 Chevy Suburban
Scarlett 2014 Jeep Cherokee
Krystal 2004 Volvo S60
Gone
'74 Jeep CJ5
'97 Jeep ZJ Laredo
Rudolf ‘86 300SDL
Bruno '81 300SD
Fritzi '84 BMW
'92 Subaru
'96 Impala SS
'71 Buick GS conv
'67 GTO conv
'63 Corvair conv
'57 Nomad

You are suggesting they are going to stop taking in premiums- ie stop the incoming revenue flow? Do you understand anything at all about income/expenses?

What I am saying is that no one will be able to pay for it anymore, so no one will be provided health care.....once the prices get that high.

__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

While it's entirely possible for a private (health insurance) system to run itself into the ground by pricing itself out of existence, I'm doubtful it will happen here. If it does, they'll probably get a government bailout because like some other businesses, the health industry is too big to fail (too important actually, but same basic thing).

What is more likely to happen is that businesses will start pulling back on the coverage, giving it only to management, then only upper management, etc.. Or, more businesses won't offer benefits, but those that do will have to raise prices on goods and services, shrinking markets and casuing inflation.

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1984 300TD

I have yet to see a good itemized breakdown of why health care is so expensive. I know liability is part of it. I also know that providing emergency care to those who fail to pay also plays a role, and I know that the complexities of medical billing require keeping a lot of billing specialists on the payroll. What I'd like to know is exactly how much each of thse contrubutes to the cost of health care.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.

Well, "Yes" to healthcare reform.

I believe we need universal access to healthcare (conditions where anyone would be able to get some kind of insurance).... not universal health insurance, especially the garbage the government would "give" us.

__________________

Current:
2014 VW Tiguan SEL 4Motion 43,000 miles.

2016 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport (wife's).

Past:
2006 Jetta TDI 135,970 miles. Sold Nov. '13.
1995 E-320 Special Edition. 220,200 miles. Sold Sept. '07.
1987 190-E 16 valve. 153,000 miles. Sold Feb. '06.
1980 300-D 225,000 miles. Donated to the National Kidney Foundation.
1980 240-D manual, 297,500 miles. Totaled by inattentive driver.

As of now it is 50/50. Interesting to say the least.

Based on what I've read: The Germans who make less than 4000 euros a year get free healthcare and are require to participate. For those making more than 4000 a year, they can join the gov't policy or buy one on their own, but it's more cost effective to use the gov't policy if you have a family. For those with families who make more than 4000 a year, they pay 15% of their gross income. So, if you make 100,000 a year, they take 15,000 a year for your insurance before you pay your taxes (think FICA, SS, etc. that gets deducted from your paycheck - ever look at that figure?).

The German gov't has found that some really expensive items won't be covered any more, so they've dropped those expensive items from the policy. Many Germans now have two policies - the gov't plan to cover their families and a private one to cover the stuff that the gov't won't cover. How's that for effiiciency?

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- Brian


1989 500SEL Euro
1966 250SE Cabriolet
1958 BMW Isetta 600

Until something concrete comes out of Washington, we are voting on....what? I voted yes simply because I think every American should have health care, not on the plan in Warshington

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TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

Please. The premium for health care in Germany is 15% of your gross income, but the part you leave out is that that cost is shared by the employee with his employer, a mandated 50%. So now we are down to 7% of gross income. In the end, it costs $3200 per capita for your average German vs at least double that in the US.

Perhaps this is instructive. It describes the German Health System as "world class":

http://www.amiexpat.com/2009/08/18/health-care-in-germany/

There is also a detailed set of links at the bottom of that web page that will lead you to all kinds of other information on German healthcare.

So as a business owner (which I am), because I have to pay my share of your 15%, your salary will be lowered accordingly because you are an expensive employee. Thus making your standard of living go down too. But we all have health care, so you'd better take one for the team and live a little less.

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- Brian


1989 500SEL Euro
1966 250SE Cabriolet
1958 BMW Isetta 600

That makes no sense. Unless you're a tiny business that is fine with attracting only low-skilled employees, you will have to offer health benefits to your employees like any other decent US business. The trouble is those benefits are getting increasingly more expensive and unaffordable, particularly in the US. As a small business owner, you should want universal health care as it will make you more competitive and allow you to attract higher quality employees.

__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

I'm surprised that the no votes come anywhere near 50%. The question is so broad, the only way to vote no is to say that status quo is fine. I don't know many people who would agree with that.