Does anyone have a link to the current rules? I got pretty familiar with the OTR truck driving hours when I was going for a CDL, but I know nothing about the aviation rules.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 401,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 26,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
99 Mazda Miata 183,xxx miles.

Skippy...

I just heard a story that the OTR the road rules changed today. The number of hours a driver can do in a day just went from 11 to 10. I am sure there is more to it that that but that is all I heard.

Something to do with trying to reduce driver fatuge.

For FAA regs you can go to www.FAA.gov.

There is a search area there. I typed in 'sleeping during a flight' and found a Word document on Pilot sleeping recommendations from the FAA that I bet every airline management person is going to find waiting on their desk come Monday morning.

Or at least they should if they are really worried about the problem of Pilots sleeping during a flight. Turns out the FAA identified this problem long ago, did a study on it, presented a number of practical solutions, and.....

Yeah, looks like the airlines are really eager to take them up on their suggestions.

You are aware that these two work as pilots for a commercial air carrier and, under their current regulations, they cannot fly more than 80 hours per month? Do you still wish to defend their actions due to excessive workload posed by their employer?

Don't believe every single thing you hear on NBC news. If it's related to aviation, you can bet your life savings that they don't have a clue what the hell they are talking about.

I can assure you that the DOT won't matter in the slightest.........the two pilots lost their tickets to fly........courtesy of the FAA.

There was no "flaw" in the operation of that aircraft..........the only "flaw" was two pilots who happened to doze off at the same time.

Thanks. I found what I was looking for in FAR 121. The basic breakdown of 1000 hrs in a year, 100 in a month, 30 in any seven days, and 8 hours in one shot is pretty simple, and doesn't seem like many hours. The part about required rest periods is a bit confusing to say the least.

For comparison, the FMCSA guide located here: http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/truck/driver/hos/fmcsa-guide-to-hos.pdf

allows up to 11 consecutive hours of driving and up to 14 consecutive hours on duty. It also has a limit of 60 hours on duty in a seven day period or 70 hours in an eight day period. This can theoretically be all driving time but usually includes some other duties (pre-trips, waiting to get loaded/unloaded, etc). I've known quite a few drivers who fudged the books in order to do even more than what is allowed under the regs.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 401,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 26,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
99 Mazda Miata 183,xxx miles.

Brian -
Perhaps you could post what I just emailed you.

As for other statements being made here. I have to wonder how many flight hours they have in the cockpit.
What people tend to or seem to think is going on, as well as what they think should and or could go on, are so far from reality some times it makes me laugh.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

X2
100%

And...
Who the heck said they both had to have passed out or fell asleep at the same time ??

And who cares how many hours they are allowed to fly in any given time period.

If the two of them didn’t get a good nights rest the night before. One of them could have intentionally (and stated to the other they were going to do so) leaned back for a short nap. (Anyone who doesn’t think this happens is….)

The other has no issue with it at the time. But then finds himself dosing off as well. Not too common, but it sure can (and has) happened before.

Does someone really believe that the two pilots would both acknowledge that they were going to both “rest their eyes” during a flight, and thus turn the radio up?!

In all my flight hours, I can not remember one time when it was though as a good idea to turn the radio volume up in case we both feel asleep. (Much less do so because you both plan to rest your eyes.) If it were possible that we'd both fall asleep, and either of us knew it were possible. We’d be having a face slapping contest for the duration of the flight.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

Well, it's good to know that the nations airways are as well managed as they are.

I guess I should not be commenting on commercial air flight as I have not been on a commercial aircraft since the early 1980's. The oil company I worked for had a policy of no commercial flights for people above a specific level. We had our own jets not for any kind of perk. It was just considered safer than flying commercial.

I'm retired now and I never intend to fly again.

It will be interesting to see if the FAA lets this incident slide or if it moves to makes changes in the way personnel are scheduled for the airlines. According to the FAA's own figures over 250 passangers have been killed since 1991 due to accidents in which Pilot fatgue was a contributing factor.

I'm glad I don't have to solve these problems anymore.

250 since 1991 works out to some seriously good odds. I'm sure the number of people killed in privately owned car crashes due to the same cause is several orders of magnitude higher than that.

__________________
Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 401,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 26,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
99 Mazda Miata 183,xxx miles.

There is a small "window of opportunity" where the second pilot can realize that he's also in danger of falling asleep. The responsible thing to do, at that moment, is to wake the first pilot and explain the situation...........and, as you suggested.........get into some face slapping or other diversion for the remainder of the flight.

That is the part that strikes me as weird. This is like you having 2 engines on your boat and BOTH fail at the same time. One pilot falling asleep, sure. BOTH at the same time? What are the odds?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

auto pilot? Maybe that was asleep too.

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"It's normal for these things to empty your wallet and break your heart in the process."
2012 SLK 350
1987 420 SEL

Funny thing you should mention that. My step-father was flying a C130 in Nam and guess what? All three pilots dozed off and woke up after hearing the altitude alarm go off at 2500 feet.....not a dry seat in house...

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"It's normal for these things to empty your wallet and break your heart in the process."
2012 SLK 350
1987 420 SEL

The autopilot would be perfectly happy to hold FL370 until the aircraft ran out of fuel. It never sleeps.