Now they will be flying guns into Africa with the pilots that graduated last in their class at the Moscow air acadamy.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I don't think so. You fly guns into Africa and you best be alert. Something these fine pilots seem to be unable to do. Maybe they will be doing the "Coffee or Tea" routine with those pilots from Moscow.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I thought Mac did. They were going to play the part of the "PC" .....

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Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

I think apple is just waiting to see if this computer story holds out. They might just change it again.

If it sticks, the slogan should be: (MAC or PC depending which they had) So much fun that you would lose your job to play with it.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Sent to me by a Delta FA:

And so David Letterman Monday night offered the Top Ten Northwest Airlines
Pilot Excuses on CBS.

10. Bunch of fat guys seated on the right side of the plane made us vector east.

9. We get paid by the hour.

8. Mapquest always takes you the long way, am I right, people?

7. Tired of that show-off Sullenberger getting all the attention.

6. You try steering one of those airplanes after eight or nine cocktails.

5. Wanted to catch the end of the in-flight movie.

4. Activating autopilot and making occasional P.A. announcements is exhausting.

3. According to our map, we only missed our target by half an inch.

2. For a change, we decided to send luggage to the right city and lose the passengers.

1. Thought we saw balloon boy.

Yes, I hear they're also signed to do commercials for Vallium, and Benedryl.

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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Yes, but are you sure they'd raise their standards as high as "Sleeping Beauty", and "Prince Vallium"???? Can they afford pilots of this high caliber and demand....?

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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Yeah, and don't forget the guys from the "Air-America" CIA funded group, who are still working for all of those foreign countries, cause that's basically the only flying they ended up quallified to do, according to our wonderful FAA anyways.

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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

The last time I ventured an opinion on the subject of transportation (which was the aircraft landing in the Hudson River) I was ripped up one side and down the other because I dared to voice the opinion that the pilots involved might be looked at by the company as being the ones at fault and it would be a few months before they would fly again.

After doing a bit of research with a few pilots on this subject none of them I have spoken to think these two guys were sleeping. The fact these two did not hear the radio proved it to them.

What's the first thing they do if they are going to 'rest their eyes'?

They turn up the radio.

It is best to factor in that all of the information on this is coming from the airline management. It is always best, and in ALWAYS, from the managements standpoint for any problem to be with the employee and not to be a management or equipment error.

I am looking forward to seeing what the FAA has to say about this. I have heard this "They were sleeping" thing out of management so many times in the past that it just sounds like a broken record. I have never known of a single case where an accident or near miss was attritubited to this cause, and I have been working in this field for over thirty-five years.

During that time I have had to remind many of my fellow workers that after an accident we were on a search for the truth and not a search for a patsy. I have seen managers hauled off to prison when they let their desire to protect the company override their ability to tell the truth to Federal investagators. These are the same managers, mind you, that tell employees that if they lie they will be found out as there is just too much instrumentation these days to cover up a lie.

Time will tell.

Your argument would only have merit if the two pilots had deliberate intent to "sleep".

If they had no intent, as would most likely be the situation, and simply dozed off...........no adjustment of the radio would have ever taken place.

They both dozed off.........nothing else makes any possible sense.


And. BTW, the two US Air pilots were NEVER viewed as "the one's at fault". In fact, the facts of the case proved the exact opposite.

0. Alien abduction.

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Question Authority before it Questions you.

If there is no 'intent' there is no 'fault'.

If they just passed out this would push this more into a medical situation. If this is the case no wonder the FAA pulled their certs. As odd as it sounds, this is possible.

The news sources has been reporting it as if their Pilot's Liscence has been revoked or suspended. I wonder if it was their medical certs? I wounder if....

Oh, well, no use in speculating. It should all come out soon.

The Department of Transportation has had a study going for about ten years on operator fatague that covers all forms of tramsportation. Railroad operators, Pipeline operators, Airline pilots, Barge operators....

Right now these people can work up to 14, and in some cases, 16 hours a day. If it is an emergency they can work up to 18 hours a day. The new rules would limit this to 10 no matter what.

The transportation industries are fighting this, and have been, for at least the last 10 years since it would raise the amount of operators they would have to hire to cover all the shifts since all of these jobs are 24/7 positions.

If these two guys just dropped over from fatgue then no matter what happens to them on a personal level the DOT is likely to cite them as a reason to rule on the amount of hours an operator can work during one shift.

Currenty these jobs are usually 12 hour shifts and everyone, even the empolyees working them, likes them that way. But accidents happen, (about 80% of transportation accidents are due to outside forces interfering with a transportation system) and the fatgue level of an operator has a direct influence on how well they respond to an accident.

This incident could reach much further than just these two guys.

BS.

They may have had no intent to fall asleep at the controls.........and it just happened........similar to you driving a vehicle and nodding off.

They most certainly are at fault........and you'd be at fault as well when your vehicle piles into a tree.

Just who's to blame if these two are not "at fault"?

According to what I just saw on the NBC news the FAA is working on that now. Airline scheduling is getting a close look as well as the management since they are the ones who decide how much time a Pilot has off before they are scheduled to operate again. Looks like the whole 'fatgue' thing is about to be pushed to the fore no matter what the industry wants.

It's about time.

By the way... I can assure you the DOT looks at the question of 'intent' very, well, intently before they rule on any decision. When they are trying to reconstruct events the main question they have of an operator is 'why did you do that?'

Often the answer makes sense even if it is wrong, a flaw in thinking is spotted, and this goes into the way new rules are written for the operation of transportation systems.