Think they keep their jobs...........??

Seeing as how many people are out of work today, employers should be spoiled for choice. Should they? No. 150 miles off is a lot of miles off. I don't care of they were sleeping, jerking each other off or talking about airline policy. Bottom line is they were too far off for an "oops". Either they were incapable or incompetent. With a union in place, I suspect they will have their wrists slapped and then keep their jobs.

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The question wasn't directed to you. You have already weighed in on the matter...........and repetition won't make your case any stronger.

So sorry, almighty one. I failed to see that. Thought I'd add a reason for why I felt that they should be dismissed when I thought of it. I didn't realize we could only answer once.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
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11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

You can answer anytime you want...........as many times as you want.

However, your position is pretty obvious and based on an underlying distaste for any union behavior.

I asked the pilot for a reason..........he's actually in that industry...........we're not.

When I get puked on by a baby in a blue suit, I avoid babies in blue suits. When I stop seeing unions protecting the incompetent and those that deserve to be fired, I will have a better opinion of them. So far, the number of union stewards that I have seen that refuse to help someone that richly deserves the punishment he/she gets is about 3. Most of them are the other way. What do you expect me to think? That the next union I run into will be #4?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

It was an observation............not an accusation.

If you're awake. Then 2 miles, is 2 miles too far off for an "oops".
No excuse if you're awake.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

uh, so obviously the pilots flew poorly because they are unionized? thanks for clearing that one up for us.

you know, applying your logic, one could say that corporations and banks should also be outlawed. follow this path:

let's see, some unions are corrupt,(or is that all of them? according to you?), so get rid of them.

obviously, banks and corporations in general are corrupt - see enron, anyone on wall street in the last ten (?, probably more) years, what with insider trading, collateraliized debt obligations, madoffs and the like, milken and friends, halliburton with its overcharging etc. so logic suggests that... we ban them. sounds good to me.

i am sure you will agree.

p.s. continuous whining is not constructive, nor are broken records and one-trick ponies. just a general thought for the day. we report, you decide.

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"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

I said they would probably keep their jobs because the union would fight for them to keep their jobs based on what I have seen of unions. I see no reason to keep them when there are way more applicants than there are jobs out there besides not wanting to tangle with the union. That is, unless you are telling me there is a shortage of airline pilots?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
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03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

yes, and when slavery was legal, you had no unions either. things were really good then; perhaps we should return to those golden days.

oh, i forgot, this was a thread about two moronic, irresponsible airline pilots. hmmm. who go us off the track? survey says...?

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"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

Also, when there was no law against it, I could buy myself a 6 yo girl for a bride and marry her. How far do you want to stretch what I said?

It also got into whether they would keep their jobs. My bet is that the union would somehow fight for their jobs.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
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03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I doubt it.
They certainly shouldn’t.
But who knows how this thing will unfold.

If anyone (airline, FAA, press…) buys the argument story. They should be grounded and on the streets for being so ignorant as to ignore where they were. And I don’t just mean where they were over the ground.

If it comes out that they admit they fell asleep. Then they should be grounded and on the streets for making up the BS argument story in the first place.

Their best bet would have been to admit to (or even make up that they did) falling asleep and subjecting the whole incident for pilot fatigue studies.
Making up a story about an argument, much less actually having one that took you so far off your responsibilities, are both grounds for dismissal in my book.

I just can not grasp that they missed their destination due to a heated debate over airline policy. Or anything for that matter. Talk about total complacency.
Even if you’re having a knock-down drag-out over it, you’re still awake and conscious of the fact that you are in charge of where you are and what you need to do. Sorry - I’m not buying the argument story.

If I had to bet, I’d for sure go with they fell asleep.
CVR might help solve it. Might not.
I’ve sat in a few FAA/Pilot “interrogations”. They can get pretty nasty.
I think one of these guys (probably the right seat.) will crack and admit they both fell asleep. At least I hope so.

If you were at a small table by the door of a quaint little restaurant, having the most heated debate with your worst enemy over anything. You’d still know where you were and what was around you. If not…Yikes. Hope you’re not a pilot.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

Since these guys are not completely stupid, they must have known that the CVR would have erased the period in question.

My real question is whether they managed to concoct their story during the last 45 minutes of the flight..........and that would be the kiss of death for them if the tape is played.

However, if they sat there completely mum about the incident..........for the entire return ride back to Minneapolis...........when did they have the time to concoct their "argument" story?

This drama becomes more interesting by the minute...............

If they knew what type of CVR they were up against. They could have bet their necks on the thing not providing their “kiss of death”.
If not. They could have used note pads or simply leaned over and whispered to each other.
It will be interesting to hear what they had to say (on the CVR) either way.
I’d think that one of them would mention missing it by 150 miles even in the last 30/45 minutes of the flight.

My money is on “Nap time !!”.
Keep in mind that someone was trying to raise them far before they started their overshoot. Even in a heated debate, one of them would have heard something that would have snapped them out of it. But not a deep snooze.

“Since these guys are not completely stupid…”
That’s an odd statement from someone who feels most everyone is a moron.
And don’t bet any money on them not being completely stupid either.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !