Originally Posted by LUVMBDiesels

The Chicago PD...

Originally Posted by LUVMBDiesels

The Chicago PD...

Originally Posted by johnjzjz

i would love to go into it with you - you seem to be real

almost all of the guys i grew up died of lead poisoning, and the others are on the left and most took the path you did, don't let anyone get under your skin about not going into the service. you need to know this - in the groups i have been involved with it has come up many times about the drafted guys, as well as the guys who were looking for any reason not to be in country, they having a different take on being in the zone caused them to be more at risk of losing their lives than the guys who were their for patriotic reasons < they did stupid things i think they were pre octupied and it caused then to make real mistakes and their was no room for them -

as a FNG and someone who was not wanting to do what it took you probly would be on the wall in DC < my take

Anyway -- the guy who runs the open forum has a hardon for me and every week he has given me an infraction so the chances are i will be thrown off the site soon, others have e mailed me telling me seeing what is happening, to contact the owner of the site - i have never been good at contacting authority about anything hahahahahahahahaha --

i will continue to post up to the end -- and if we get into to it i will be banished for sure --- jz

Originally Posted by Billybob

Maybe you should take this opportunity to set your record straight. You gamed the system to exempt yourself from the chance of personal harm by fraudulently claiming Conscientious Objector status. Now you want to have others believe this was somehow a noble act on your part and not the cowardly self-interest that you bemoan people for 30-40 years have rightfully recognized it to be?

On March 8, 1971 the US Supreme Court had already rendered its decision on the constitutionality of the “selective conscientious objection” which you perversely rely upon as your defense.

GILLETTE v. UNITED STATES, 401 U.S. 437 (1971) Holds that,” The exemption for those who oppose "participation in war in any form" applies to those who oppose participating in all war and not to those who object to participation in a particular war only, even if the latter objection is religious in character.”

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=401&invol=437

You have repeatedly made postings regarding your beliefs regarding other wars and your alleged willingness to participate in them and repeatedly confessed the nature of your objections to the Vietnam War! Your own statements convict you plain and simple, you’ve stated that had your time been the American Revolution, WWII or Afghanistan you would have chosen to serve and fight but in actuality when your time came to stand on principle you did not. You’re not opposed to all wars, only the war that would have actually put you at risk. How does that make someone anything other than “a draft dodging coward”?

You state, “Military service is a major coming of age ritual in the US, something I looked forward to and then when it came my time, the war from hell beckoned. Of course it was a signature event in my life.”

“But after 30 - 40 years of being given crap of my own, directly or indirectly, about being some kind of draft dodging coward, I'm disinclined to not speak frankly about my end of the experience.”

Maybe now is the time to reflect and accept that by your own admissions you are not in fact nor ever where ,”a conscientious objector” and abandon your claims that your actions where motivated buy anything but self preservation.

Living that lie of your “signature event in my life” for 37 years has misshapen you; of necessity you’ve constructed a world view to rationalize disgraceful conduct as virtue.

Your response to those who accepted the call to sacrificed life and limb, where you responded with scheme and deceit is:


Shame on you.

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Shame on me? KMGDA.

My position did not adhere to the textbook definition of a CO as that stipulates that you must be opposed on a moral basis to all wars at all times. I'm not a full time pacifist. There are times that if you don't stand up and fight, your life will be forfeit and your family enslaved.

However I did have a strong moral objection to what was going on in Vietnam. If I hadn't been a CO, I would have gone underground. I wasn't going to do anything under orders from the world record ass William Westmoreland. The CO route appealed to me as it gave the chance to state my reasoning before agents of the nation and to serve the country in some capacity.

You're going to tell me that Lt. Calley and all the others who didn't get caught who were burning down villages and slaughtering peasants on orders that they didn't have the good sense to refuse somehow accrued more honor than those of us who understood the biblical admonition "blessed are they who walketh not in the counsel of the un-Godly?"

The Red White and Blue does not confer unimpeachable righteousness.

Originally Posted by cmac2012

than those of us who understood the biblical admonition "blessed are they who walketh not in the counsel of the un-Godly?"

Originally Posted by Billybob

Absolutely, these men and women risked life and limb with many paying with their lives to burn down those villages and slaughter those peasants in order that self-admitted cowardly draft dodging frauds could play basketball with children while self-congratulating themselves for adopting the moral "soup of the day" which most conveniently suited their own selfish interest.

Once again you display the vacant integrity of a hypocrite when you near simultaneously attempt to justify past disgraceful conduct by quoting scripture so soon after taking the name of the LORD your God in vain, i.e.: Kiss My God Damn A&&.

For the record I sincerely doubt any of these fine Americans who answered the call of their country would even let someone like you kiss anything they hold near and dear.

There is at least some small consolation that even though many of these fallen men and women did not get the opportunity to pass on their brave DNA, at least they would be comforted that natural selection has thus far prevented you from passing on yours.

Originally Posted by Billybob

Being a devout atheist, but having been exposed too much scripture over the years I'm not familiar with the quote you've provided. Is it authentic? A Google search brings up only your single articulation!

Originally Posted by LUVMBDiesels

Seriously guys, can we go back to Chris Matthews and the USMA?

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Not sure what an FNG is. But you're probably right. Vietnam would not have been a good place to be if you were ambivalent about the mission.

I sorta came down with Muhammed Ali on it: no Viet Cong ever so much as insulted my family. We were in a weird place where the several degrees of separation danger that we felt from a communist Vietnam was enough for us to deal out real death and destruction in the here and now to a bunch of peasants who couldn't have made it to our shores to harm us in 1,000 years.

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Dude, hang a big sign around your neck that says CLUELESS in bold face. You extrapolate anything that takes place when US armed forces fire a shot in anger anywhere in the world as being brave and honorable defense of family and nation. In no way did anything that happened in Vietnam make me any safer in the US. If anything, it made me/us less safe. It demonstrated how clueless and paranoid we were while at the same time depleting our treasury and maiming and killing our youth.

Read the words of JC again. You missed something. And I typed some capital letters - you took the Lord's name in vain, by your definition anyway. The definition I like means to use the name of the Lord as some sort of imprimatur of righteousness, i.e., we are the chosen of God, God is with us, we are doing God's work, etc. That's for God to decide.

Originally Posted by Craig

I agree.

cmac2012, you know what they say about wrestling with pigs?

Originally Posted by johnjzjz

1 - FNG feffen new guy

2 - well it was partly my understanding and seeing the same information as you at the time it was not undifferent and again today in Muslim world

i though we were their to stop communist inftration from taking over that reagion - ( laos ) - Vientiane area 91,428 square miles (236,799 square kilometers), population 4,533,000 was as well as Vietnam was under a threat

and lets not forget what happened when the mission failed not only did 10s of thousands a day die from the norths take over and its hard for me to say they were kind compaired to

Cambodia - SE Asia bordering on Gulf of Thailand ∗ Phnom Penh area 69,898 square miles (181,036 square kilometers), population 11,437,656

and since we bailed they the kamarooosee guys what was it again, every person with the ability to read or write was killed 10s of millions were done away with. ALL because we ( NOT stopping the expansion of the spread of communist ) had the affect we who served know all too well can and will happen again History that is

Flaming children i think you wrote thats what we majored in

AND this does go to what that HACK cris Nomatters said its the way the LEFT see our fighting force and openly speak about them and always have

soooo tell me again i am now a bit confused you were then and are now ok with what happen as a result of us leaving the South East Area

and some how you can then condone the mass killing of millons is what our fault, me and my fellow soldiers for being their in the first place

i am again in need of englighenment -- jz

Originally Posted by Billybob

Unfortunately you are trapped in your own delusion . . .