IMHO really interesting article. The largest tree logged in the State of West Virginia, near Lead Mine, Tucker County, 1913. This white oak, as large as any California Sequoia, was probably well over 1,000 years old. It measured 13 feet in diameter 16 feet from the base, and 10 feet in diameter 31 feet from http://www.patc.us/history/archive/virg_fst.html

The Virgin Forest Falls
With the introduction of the band saw and Shay locomotive, rail-lines started snaking into the deepest hollows of the West Virginia mountains. The virgin forests of the Alleghenies rapidly fell to the lumberman's cross-cut saw. The decline of the forest is shown very dramatically by comparing the following statements:
1835 - "West of the Alleghanies a large portion of the country must forever remain in its primitive forest." (Joseph Martin)
1870 - "At least 10,000,000 acres are still in all the vigor and freshness of original growth." (J.H. Diss Debar)
1876 - "Between 9,000,000 and 10,000,000 acres are in the original forest." (Maury and Fontaine)
1893 - "Nearly or quite one-half of the State is still uncleared, and by far the greater portion of the uncleared land is still in virgin forest." (George W. Summers)
1900 - "The wooded area of West Virginia is estimated at 18,400 square miles, or 73 per cent of the area of the State and most of this is occupied by timber of mercantable size and quantity." (Henry Gannett)
1910 - The virgin forest area in 1910 is slightly over 1.5 million acres. 1920 - The original forest is completely depleted, except for a few isolated areas of small acer http://www.patc.us/history/archive/virg_fst.html

That is a real shame to hear about all those old growth trees.....I hope they at least planted some to replace them....but I doubt that

Clearcut, then burned to bedrock by fire, this old photograph looks from Cabin Mountain into the northern stretches of the Dolly Sods Wilderness. Today, some eighty years later, the summit of Cabin Mountain is still devoid of trees and soil. Amazing photos in the link.

Incredible, isn't it? I'm admittedly a bit of a tree nut. Not so much a tree hugger, but rather I enjoy trees and especially mature specimens. Wait, that came out all wrong... I think sustainable logging is both necessary and practical.

What is kind of tragic is that there is very little old growth anywhere, the previous generations logged everything. From Ontario down to Florida, it's all been chopped at least once and what remains are usually secondary or tertiary forest ecosystems that are in various stages of maturity - but rarely fully matured. It amazes me that no one thought about growth rates and renewal back then when pictures like these were taken - or perhaps greed was partnered with ignorance to ensure every last one was cut. Few stands were left for future generations.

You will likely never find a white oak with a 6' diameter trunk, let alone a 13'. Same with sugar maples here in Ontario. Once in a while, you find an old giant in a forest - close to 150' tall with a massive trunk. Or white pine - when they were being harvested in the early 1800s for naval use they averaged 1-2m in diameter. It you find one today that is half a metre, people think it's a giant, whereas it's really a teenager at best.

Imagine staring at an apparently limitless ancient forest, full of these behemoths, stretching over 150' into the sky. I've caught glimpses of forests like that in British Columbia and it is awe-inspiring to behold. I visited Maere Island (now protected) off Vancouver island and it was like being on the set of Jurassic Park. Huge bald eagle nests among 1,000-yr old cedars covered in clinging moss, spruce trees growing from a hollow 50' up on the trunk of an ancient tree...amazing.

Sad that our children and their children will never see forests like this. The generation after? Maybe.

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I'll go with both sides to a point.
I love trees etc, but realize "managed logging" makes senses.

I hate when around here they bulldoze everything to put up buildings or houses. Yes much was farm land, but they still clear it.

But managed logging of forrests makes sense in many ways.
You can limit fire hazard.
When trees are too packed together none of them do well.
But mostly a young forest / tree is really much better environmentally. Younger forests consume much more CO2 per acre than old growth, and old growth tends to have a lot of brush, leaves etc at the floor decomposing giving off CO2.
So if we manage the logging we can have some of each.

I also recycle as much paper as I can to limit the amount of fressh pulp needed.

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I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

I remember reading a passage, I forget where, that said that US history, if viewed as a competition between the trees and the grasses, the grasses have clearly won. As a nation we seem to lavish more attention and place a higher value on grains and grasses than we do trees and forests. Nearly everytime I mow the lawn, that passage jumps out of some cranial neurons for a moment before something else distracts me.

I like the forests but progress happens. I'm quite happy not to live in a hut at the base of a tree.

OTOH these days they pretty much farm trees for logging so the days of destructive logging in this country are pretty much over. We also have an extensive national forest system, and farming has become more effeciant and needs less land. So in time the forests will come back, sadly its going to take time.


Now whats going on with the rain forest is a crime, they are repeating our mistake.

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I seem to recall reading that in some cities, new home builders are prohibited from just going in and mowing all the trees down. They have to work around the larger ones or leave a certain percentage standing. I did a quick search but did not find anything. My wife remembers it too so I know I am not nuts.

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I don't have any specifics, but yes that is true NOW in many areas.
But it wasn't always, even so the trees kept are really a small quantity, just a token.
And as someone mentioned they scrape and sell the topsoil which doesn't help the land.

My first house I went around the yard with a LARGE roto tiller, the back yard wasn't bad I could turn 3 or 4 inches, some areas of the front yard I could do more damage to the driveway with the tiller.

Vs the house we are in now, built in 55, we have 2 to 3 feet of black dirt before you hit clay.

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I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

I grew up in WV and still clearly remember a particular WV History lecture at WVU. More than 30 years ago, Professor Wiley (a campus favorite) told the story of an environmental minded surveyor hired to mark a line through the middle of the last stand of virgin hemlocks in WV. One timber company owned a large parcel. They were selling about half of the parcel to another timber company. Both companies were undoubtedly eventually going to harvest every last tree.

The contract between the companies said somehing like, "Company A sells xyz acres of timber land to Company B." The surveyor was hired to map the line through the divided parcel. Both companies knew the location of the start of the line. Neither company knew precisely where a line dividing the parcel would end. So the surveyor hatched a plan to preserve some of this virgin timber for future generations to enjoy.

The surveyor began at the known starting point, calculated a point at the other side of the parcel, marked it, drew a map and told the first company that was the line. The surveyor went back to the same starting point, calculated a DIFFERENT end point, marked the line, mapped it and told the second company that was the line.

For the next several decades, each company logged their timber up to the line they believed started the other companies property. Several more decades passed before someone figured out the surveyor had preserved a long triangle of virgin hemlocks.

By that time, the surveyor and original principals of the two companies were long gone. The heirs to the two companies agreed to leave the trees to the state for preservation. They can be seen today at Cooper's Rock State Park. Look for the Virgin Hemlock trail.

http://www.coopersrockstateforest.com/trails.html

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A lot of larger projects can require that, or if their are some special trees.

I have seen them move trees in FL and up here.


Around here were usualy just clearing junk, their are no nice forests left. Although we tend to keep larger trees by defualt since they are expensive to cut down.

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Everybody loves trees- some people love them standing and some people love them laying on the ground. Earth First- we'll log the other planets later. Both seen on bumper stickers on a forklift at a lumber yard!! Me I have my own forest of oaks, pines, and firs that I guard with a wary eye. In Carmel you have to protect the trees when doing construction by encircling them with 2x4's and you need a permit to cut a tree or limb over 6 inches in diameter. I recall reading about Europe being depleted of tall trees for ship masts and when North America was discovered all trees over a certain height were deemed property of the King or something like that. Just some random thoughts about trees.

Yes ..
Roy Hill , Master Housewright Colonial Williamsburg gives a great explantation of the importance and use of White Pine in an Intro for the book series "Architectural treasures of early America". He explainswhite Pine Grew to 400 years old as tall as a 20 story building and could be as much as six feet in diameter. The King of England in 1761 laid claim to all White Pines larger than 2 feet in diameter. These were to be used as ship Masts for the royal navy. He tells of the Great Lakes Mills that produced over 3 billion pine shingles per year for 24 years. By 1786 there were already complaints of poorer quality lumber.

Thanks for the info. Seems poor forest management began long ago. When I was an apprentice carpenter 30+ years ago the redwood we used would stain your hands purple after handling it all day and the lumber we would reject would be considered prime these days. I never used to recycle any lumber but now I keep and reuse any old stuff I can find as the quality is vastly superior. I have a fairly large stash that should last me through any projects I have planned. Even though I'm not a carpenter anymore I still dumpster dive and scrounge old lumber on jobsites. I am amazed that people will pay to have better than you can buy now lumber taken to the dump!