I'd personally be 100% ok with denying gays the rights to marry, based on the "successful offspring" argument, if we also stripped sterile heterosexual couples of their rights to marry. Hey, they can't make children either, so they shouldn't be allowed to wed!

Or, we could just do like the rest of the civilized world is doing (Several European countries, a few Latin ones, and yesterday, the capitol city of Mexico) and let two human beings who love each other be granted the same rights as everyone else.

Religion and morality is something to define one's self, not meant to dictate to others how to lead their lives. The religious argument against gay marriage is somewhat moot because of this, otherwise we could also rationalize Muslim (and a few other) religion's views towards women's rights, setting the whole country back about 50 years.

Childbirth is also a moot argument against marriage equality, since we currently do not strip infertile heterosexual couples of their rights to marry, either.

Several states already have gay marriage in place, and guess what? They haven't imploded into a cesspool of destruction and mayhem. Children are still being born, straight parents are still being married (and divorced), and people are still free to practice their own religions, complete with scorn for gays. As far as I know, churches are not being forced to marry homosexual couples if they do not wish, as churches are a separate entity than the state. This sort of thing has been going on WAY before it was a hot topic in the USA. Really makes me wonder what arguments the opposition has against it, aside from "I don't like it" and "It's always been done this way!".

Not going to get more long winded than I already have, so I leave you with an interesting video to watch, for anybody who still tries to use the same tired excuses against the idea of marriage equality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSfFa44p96o

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(Oo{=|=}oO) 1983 MB 300D USA, 212,000mi. 80's yellow/white. "Gunther"
(Oo{=|=}oO) 1984 MB 300D Euro, Turbo Added in Germany, 186,000mi [SOLD] Missing her dearly.
(Oo{=|=}oO) 1984 MB 300D USA Turbodiesel, 269,000mi. [SOLD]

I think the point is that the government can only deal with the contractual aspects of marriage, and has no business getting involved with the "institution" of marriage. Unfortunately the terminology is shared between those two very different things. IMO, the only way to fix this is to get government out of the "institution" of marriage completely and let them call the contract something else. It is not OK to have the government recognize only some "marriages" and not others, so let's have them simply issue a contract to any two adults who meet the legal requirements (they can call it whatever they want) and remove the word marriage from all government documents. Marriage would then be like the catholic's comfermation, a purely religious distinction.

Ah, the victim card gets played . . . well done, sir.

The guy is amazing, whining about "ad hominem attacks" right after he screams that liberals should be sterilized. Hey, where have we heard the old "sterilization" argument before?

Margaret Sanger, Marie Stopes, H. G. Wells, Woodrow Wilson, Theodore Roosevelt, Emile Zola, George Bernard Shaw, John Maynard Keynes, John Harvey Kellogg, Linus Pauling and Sidney Webb.

Adolf Hitler.

I think I mentioned that at one point. It somehow was ignored

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1982 300SD 180K, rebuilt engine
1973 450SLC Megasquirt
1990 Volvo 780 - 273k
1993 Volvo 240 Wagon - Scrap yard slumber

http://www.fuelly.com/sig-us/44619.png

AH was a late comer to the position. The others in BB's response mostly US Progressives were there first.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

No victim, just pointing out the false claim.

With nothing of value to the topic being contributed, this thread is now a mere exchange of mud. Time to move on to the next . . .

I agree. Since the resident homophobes refuse to offer any valid compelling reason for the state to interfere in two people entering into a legal contract, the discussion has ended in their defeat. Mud is what is at the bottom of the barrel of ideas they are currently scraping.

Yawn.

Exactly what Meisha (Old Shar Pei) does. Only, this young pup ain't buying it.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Sorry, but I'm just not afraid of their hot air. It's a little amusing and a little sad, but mostly just boring.

If only that it were simply hot air, I would say you are right. Unfortunately, a lot of the so called "hot air" somehow seems to make changes and those changes seem to have other undesirable effects. You do seem to have a lot to say and opinions in this and other threads, only to be concluded with "It doesn't bother me", which makes me think of Meisha and her act.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow