The quote has been attributed to Uncle Joe (Stalin).

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Soros didn't say that, in spite of the unquestioned authority of forwarded emails. Stalin said it, maybe.

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The 30% have no more idea than anyone else.
In fact they're the people that media manipulation affects the most.
Electronic voting machines should be banned.
They're to easily tampered with.

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1989 W124 260E

Indiana sec. of state convicted of voter fraud - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

The Free Press -- Independent News Media from Columbus, Ohio

Glad we can agree on the electronic machines.

If you really feel that

"The 30% have no more idea than anyone else.
In fact they're the people that media manipulation affects the most."

Then why even have elections? Why not a Great National Lottery Election? All citizens are in "the pool" and at random all elected positions get filled. Actually, it would eliminate the narcissists from making a career in politics. Maybe it would be good.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

We have elections because we're lucky enough to live in countries that are called democracies.
People struggled and put up with all types of abuses to win universal suffrage and the right for all citizens above 18 to vote.
We even have ballots in prisons and hospitals and people to help all the elderly to cast their vote.
That's reason enough for everyone to turn up vote. If they hate all the candidates, they can voter informal. Just do your civic duty and vote.
It's made easy for those of us in countries that have compulsory voting.
Every school and many church's are polling stations, there's never more than a few minutes wait to cast your vote. We have sausage sizzles and other stuff to amuse the kids, it's a day to get out and be proud we are all voting.
I believe in countries without compulsory voting, there's all types of manipulations carried out to make voting hard.
The incumbent makes it hard for his/her opposition to get to a polling station then there's too few so they have to wait for hours.
That's not a democracy. When they get there they find they've been struck off the voting list without being informed. WTF.

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1989 W124 260E

Seems like it would be easy enough to design an electronic voting machine with a paper back up which could not be tampered with.

One thing I was thinking of is a punch out system like in FL (hanging chad) overlaid on an electronic sensor. Each chad you punch has a electronic 'button' underneath it. Punch a chad and an electronic vote gets entered. The punch card has a unique ID that the electronic machine reads. There is a paper trail for verification and an electronic count for expediency. What is wrong with this? Could do the same thing with a scan tron type ballot as well. You vote and the computer takes an image of the scan tron while it is registering the vote. Any discrepancy just go to the hard copy.

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Of course it would be simple. The fact that no one has done it raises the question doesn't it? My guess is that the powers that be do not want a tamper-proof system.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

If you really believe "the powers that be" are tampering with elections, then why vote, since it's a foregone conclusion arranged by said "powers"?

And if so, then why do you care so much about politics that you start so many threads? I think you're just looking for some conspiracy to explain why other people choose differently than you in their selection of politicians. Somehow they cheated or something.

BTW: the "fact" that no one has done it is simply yet another in the long long line of things that you are ignorant of and unwilling to look up before expressing an opinion on.

Hint - google VVPAT or VVBP

Are you of the opinion that no one has ever tampered with election results in the USA?

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Whoa, I wasn't aware of that, thanks. Jail.

No, I'm not of that opinion.

But my opinion regarding tampering or fraud doesn't extend so far as to speculate that there's conspiracy to withhold paper verification as an as-yet "uninvented improvement" when, in fact, the technology exists and is used in some places.

You stated "My guess is that the powers that be do not want a tamper-proof system."

The corollary to this is that the powers that be WANT a system that can be tampered with. If you extend the logic, why would they want this? Is there any reason other than so they can tamper with the results? That would imply that there is an overwhelming conspiracy involving both major parties to sytematically perpetrate election fraud; because otherwise they'd do things like try to make elections auditable and verifiable.

Your unfounded and incorrect statement about the voting machines and paper ballots needlessly feeds into the general hysteria about election fraud.

If you're that concerned about fraud, and your state doesn't use verifiable machines, then write your representatives and request they get new machines. If you believe your elected officials are complicit in election fraud (which you imply by your statements) then vote for someone else. Or volunteer to be a poll watcher, get the training, and more deeply participate in the process.

Or you could sit back and promulgate unfounded theories about how the system might be rigged. That's almost as helpful.

Regarding the "not yet invented paper verification of electronic voting"

What are (or were) the rules in Maryland, circa 2007/2008? Maybe you ought to focus on local efforts and Linda Lamone.

GOVERNOR O’MALLEY SIGNS VOTING PAPER TRAIL BILL
New, Less Expensive System Will Allow for Recounts

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: MAY 17, 2007 [PRINTABLE PDF]

CONTACT: Robert Ferraro 301-661-2989, Co-Director, SAVEourVotes.org (Columbia)
Gov. Martin O’Malley signed legislation Thursday that calls for replacing Maryland’s paperless touch-screen voting system with a system that will provide a paper record to allow for recounts of close races. The “Voter-Verifiable Paper Records” bill, SB 392, was sponsored by Senator Edward Kasemeyer (D-Baltimore and Howard Counties) and passed the Senate unanimously. A companion bill, HB18, sponsored by Delegate Sheila Hixson (D-Montgomery County) passed the House unanimously both last year and this year. The transition will occur before the 2010 elections.
“This is a great victory for Maryland’s voters, who overwhelmingly favor a paper record of their votes,” said Robert Ferraro, a Co-Director of SAVE Our Votes, a grass-roots citizens’ group working for Secure, Accessible, Verifiable Elections in Maryland.
Public opinion polls conducted last year showed that two out of three Maryland voters want a paper record of their votes. Most prefer an optical scan system where voters mark paper ballots, either by hand or with the assistance of a ballot-marking machine, which are then counted in the polling place by optical scanners. Nineteen of Maryland’s 24 counties used optical-scan systems before state law required them to switch to touch-screen machines over the past five years.
Maryland’s new law is part of a national trend away from paperless voting. After the loss of 18,000 electronic votes in Sarasota’s 2006 election left a congressional seat in dispute, Florida’s governor announced plans to replace its touch-screen voting machines with optical scanners before the 2008 elections. A federal bill currently making its way through the House of Representatives, the “Voter Confidence & Increased Accessibility Act” (HR 811), would eliminate paperless voting by the 2008 general election and provide funding to replace equipment that does not comply with the law.
Maryland’s bill requires funding by next year’s legislative session, through either state or federal dollars, for implementation to be accomplished on schedule. But the economic benefits of optical scan systems are especially attractive in a time of fiscal deficits when the new administration is looking for ways to reduce government waste to balance the budget. Studies have shown a large jump in election expenses when counties across the nation switched to paperless electronic voting.
“We look forward to working with the governor to find funding for this bill,” said SAVE Our Votes Co-Director Rebecca Wilson. “In this time of tight budgets, we don't have the luxury of operating a voting system that is as fiscally wasteful as Maryland's current system is.”
“Gov. O’Malley is a strong advocate for making government more transparent and accountable,” said Co-Director Shelley Fudge. “This legislation will move Maryland a huge step in that direction.” ###

Still haven't seen the machines in use.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

After their election debacle in Florida in 2000, they borrowed machines from Louisiana in a mid-term. About half the votes went to Edwin Edwards.