Jeep Shifting Production to China? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

retmil46 · #1 10-26-2012, 01:50 PM

If there's any truth to this, and it goes public in a big way, BO might have to kiss Ohio - and the election - goodbye.

Jeep, an Obama favorite, looks to shift production to China | WashingtonExaminer.com

tbomachines · #2 10-26-2012, 01:56 PM

Couple points before the frothing mouths see this:

- Jeep was already in China and had plants there. They stopped in the late 2000s and are simply re-opening those plants for Jeep.
- They are talking about moving 100% of production for Asian markets there.

Quote:

Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at U.S. plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121021/OEM/310219965/chrysler-eyes-china-for-jeep-output

aklim · #3 10-26-2012, 02:12 PM

Well, unless Bloomberg is in the business of printing lies, there is "VERY DETAILED" conversation with Guangzhou Automobile Group Co which is in China.

It might come out to nothing or it might come out to something. Hard to say but if recent history is any indicator, it probably will come to something. China has a strong desire for Jeeps but we don't. Not sure what you expect the business to do.

A business, IMO, exists for one reason and one reason only. To make as much money as it can. When it is no longer able, it is now like the dog who is dying. Euthanasia is the answer. It is not a force for social change. It is not a charitable organization. It is a money making machine. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to lend it money, make sure that the conditions are there for the return you are seeking. Otherwise, it is like me asking my Dad for a $20000 loan because I lost my job and my family needs food and then squandering it on booze and cigarettes. Govt tends not to do it's homework when it comes to these sort of things, hence, my opinion that govt should not be doing this sort of thing.

Besides, why Obama? If memory serves me, Bush had a hand in starting starting it on his watch. Why doesn't he get star billing or at least co-star billing?

aklim · #4 10-26-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Couple points before the frothing mouths see this:

- Jeep was already in China and had plants there. They stopped in the late 2000s and are simply re-opening those plants for Jeep.
- They are talking about moving 100% of production for Asian markets there.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121021/OEM/310219965/chrysler-eyes-china-for-jeep-output

Good point but do you believe that is going to be all that happens?

Quote:

Fiat SpA, majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually assemble all Jeep models in the country, according to the head of both automakers' operations in the region.

tbomachines · #5 10-26-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Good point but do you believe that is going to be all that happens?

Maybe eventually but that's still speculation. I prefer to deal with what we have on hand. The OP's article editorializes heavily on how this will affect Obama and his picture taken in a Jeep plant, etc.

Air&Road · #6 10-26-2012, 02:20 PM

Hmm.... Does anyone believe that moving PART of their production to China will make MORE jobs in America?

tbomachines · #7 10-26-2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Hmm.... Does anyone believe that moving PART of their production to China will make MORE jobs in America?

Irrelevant. And precisely the way that the OP's article is written to make you think. Well done!

Its an existing factory that they already own and already used. Do you believe its a smart business move to make Chinese cars in the U.S.?

aklim · #8 10-26-2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Maybe eventually but that's still speculation. I prefer to deal with what we have on hand. The OP's article editorializes heavily on how this will affect Obama and his picture taken in a Jeep plant, etc.

Well, you can call it speculation and today, you'd be right. Tomorrow, I'll bet money that you would be proved wrong. The chinese are not interested in "wetting my beak" as is said in The Godfather. They want it all. Maybe not today but they have an eye on tomorrow.

Sure, you deal with what is on hand but if you don't look at the writing on the wall, tomorrow, you might be the one with the proverbial "pink slip" in your hand asking "WHY ME!!! Whoda thunk it!!". Face facts. The Chinese are the manufacturing masters today. You can talk about trying to be more efficient all day long but if it is cheaper to make it there, well, we head there. Look at where things are going and tell me if you think it isn't likely and that we can pull out of it at the last second and things are going to be hunky dory.

aklim · #9 10-26-2012, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Hmm.... Does anyone believe that moving PART of their production to China will make MORE jobs in America?

In a sense, maybe. Manufacturing of this sort is dead. We just do a "Terry Schiavo" on it and try to look at signs of recovery. BTW, when they did an autopsy, most of her brain was mush.

Maybe when this goes, we might finally wake up and realize that we need to stop flogging that dead and decayed horse and get ourselves another horse. THEN and only then, will we improve.

tbomachines · #10 10-26-2012, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Well, you can call it speculation and today, you'd be right. Tomorrow, I'll bet money that you would be proved wrong. The chinese are not interested in "wetting my beak" as is said in The Godfather. They want it all. Maybe not today but they have an eye on tomorrow.

Sure, you deal with what is on hand but if you don't look at the writing on the wall, tomorrow, you might be the one with the proverbial "pink slip" in your hand asking "WHY ME!!! Whoda thunk it!!". Face facts. The Chinese are the manufacturing masters today. You can talk about trying to be more efficient all day long but if it is cheaper to make it there, well, we head there. Look at where things are going and tell me if you think it isn't likely and that we can pull out of it at the last second and things are going to be hunky dory.

No I agree, but I think that it would take inside knowledge to know whether its worth shifting all the production over to China and shipping them back into the U.S. Certainly for Asian markets it makes perfect business sense to make them over there. I suspect that they will keep both open for a while and eventually move off entirely to China as well, but again I am not an insider so its just speculation based on my knowledge of the industry (which admittedly is not much). It makes business sense though. Shipping cars around the world isn't cheap, as evidenced by the numerous "foreign" companies having plants in the U.S. making U.S.-only models. Not much different than Jeep IMO.

aklim · #11 10-26-2012, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

Irrelevant. And precisely the way that the OP's article is written to make you think. Well done!

Its an existing factory that they already own and already used. Do you believe its a smart business move to make Chinese cars in the U.S.?

Did you even read the first paragraph of the article you quoted? They are talking about eventually moving all jeep production to China. If you have a different take on it, please do explain why you think so.

They have an initial capacity of 140K with a final capacity of 500K. Do you think that they will be happy with just a few scraps you throw them or do you think they want to take over everything? I know what I would do in their position. Makes me think of the previous "Merger of Equals" they had.

Air&Road · #12 10-26-2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Did you even read the first paragraph of the article you quoted? They are talking about eventually moving all jeep production to China. If you have a different take on it, please do explain why you think so.

They have an initial capacity of 140K with a final capacity of 500K. Do you think that they will be happy with just a few scraps you throw them or do you think they want to take over everything? I know what I would do in their position. Makes me think of the previous "Merger of Equals" they had.

I can answer that. TBO has a different take on it, because the original post doesn't put his guy in a good light.

Benz Fan · #13 10-26-2012, 02:46 PM

Why not suspend off-shore manufacturing of any automobile produced under the auspices of the Big Three? Ford and GM manufacture cars in Europe and Australia! Why not close those factories down, manufacture all GM and Ford automobiles for the world market in the US, and ship the finished product all around the world? Oh, sure, Ford and GM will be eaten alive by locally-produced competition, who will be able to deliver product to the market without the time and expense of a transoceanic boat ride....

Anyone wonder why Honda and Toyota have manufacturing plants in North America? Think that there might be some small advantage in manufacturing a product in proximity to the customer base?

BTW, did anyone bother to read the actual Bloomberg article? It stated that the president of the Jeep brand referred to adding Jeep production sites in China, rather than shifting output from North America to China.

tbomachines · #14 10-26-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

I can answer that. TBO has a different take on it, because the original post doesn't put his guy in a good light.

False. I don't like Obama. Doesn't seem to sink in with you though. Again, well done. "My guy" is Gary Johnson. Since you ignore any intellectual content I post and dismiss it as "zealotry", "libby/commy", etc, I'm not surprised at your conclusion.

aklim · #15 10-26-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

No I agree, but I think that it would take inside knowledge to know whether its worth shifting all the production over to China and shipping them back into the U.S. Certainly for Asian markets it makes perfect business sense to make them over there. I suspect that they will keep both open for a while and eventually move off entirely to China as well, but again I am not an insider so its just speculation based on my knowledge of the industry (which admittedly is not much). It makes business sense though. Shipping cars around the world isn't cheap, as evidenced by the numerous "foreign" companies having plants in the U.S. making U.S.-only models. Not much different than Jeep IMO.

IF somebody can do it, my money is on the Chinese. They, unlike us, are hungry. They want more. They are willing to bust their hump today that their children have a better future. With some of the trading we have done with them, I have seen first hand what they do and their attitudes. My fear comes from the Chinese crews on the railroad. Paid less, worked harder but still managed to save more than the white man. We have been spoiled too long and we believe the world owes us a living. We have an entitlement mentality. The Japs were once like that but this current generation is also showing signs of weakening. IMO, the next generation of Chinese will seal our manufacturing fate once and for all. Sure, they might give it up to the next group in 2 more generations but that is another day.