You just trotted out every hackneyed, wore out, pathetic excuse which has been spouted by gun owners and the NRA for decades, then announced that you could go on and on...

So, please don't go on and on.

As a responsible gun owner, I see the need for us to collectively quit with the BS, knee-jerk, redirection talking points that have been beaten to death and proven to be disingenuous at best.

We need to speak about these things with reason and facts, all the while listening to the argument from the other side and actually responding directly to the points being raised. Screaming 'SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!!!' does not help our case.


My own opinion on what is in red is - Huh?? Could you rephrase the statement please?

__________________
On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

This goes back to the ridicule instead of argument that the other member posted. Please notice that in My arguments I don't riducual Folks.

Facts:
I was born in1952. Growing up some People owned Guns and some did not.
Up until the President JFK assassination you could order Hand Guns and other Guns by Mail.

On the Back Page of every Gun Magazine were Mail Order Guns.
Yet, there was little violence of any kind period.
As the 1960s progressed there was increasing Violence and Crime.
In My opinion after the "Drug Culture" took a good hold the Violence started to rise faster.

Things like serial killing and Child Molestation also shot up.
Part of the above is due to what I call an increase in Criminal Rights; meaning that the Law has a difficult time prosecuting Criminals due to the stricter interpretation of the Laws of evidence.

Simply put the violence is being caused because the gernearl population is simply more immoral and selfserving than then people in the past were and there is too many of them for the Law to police.

In fact much of the population sees any sort of representation of the Law; even a STOP sign as an affront to their personal freedom.

The tragic and irresponsible use of Guns is just a tiny part of the above.
Now; I snap My Fingers and magically all of the Guns in the US owned by non-criminals other than authorized government agencies disappear from the Face of the Earth.
After that what has changed; except that the non-criminals are more defenseless than they were before. Who does that help?

My comment on the Switzerland who's Soldiers bring their real Assault Rifles and Ammo Home with them was meant to show that they can do that without rampent Gun Violence because they have a better society then We do here.

You are not going to fix Our Society by trying to regulate or ban Guns.

As an example I was trying to make goes sort of like this.
Because somepeople think that you cannot use a so called Assult Weapon for Hunting or for Home defence; what they just has to believe must be true.
(So called Assault Weapons are supposed to be able to kill legions of innocent People and Enemy Soldiers that might be wearing Body Aromor but are not able to effectively be used to Kill a Deer; is considered a sound argument; if you believe what you want to.)

People belive what the want and ignore or don't care about the truth. And, that is OK till they try to make it the Law.

I have this on My Bullitun Board:
Title;Thinking Problems Through
Understand the cause of the Problem
Understand the Goal
Plan a Sloution
Act on the Plan
Do the Results match your Goal

A ban on Guns fails in the "Understand the Problem" (People who want to kill other Pople) area and the "Do the Results Match your Goal" areas (after the Gun ban the People who want to Kill are still there).

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Sorry if you misinterpreted my comments, I was not trying to ridicule you, but the worn out arguments you were using. And they are worn out, continuing to present them will not assist our desire to see reasonable restrictions placed on our weapons, but will hasten the demand for unreasonable restrictions.

I would ask for some sort of suppor for this claim. I believe you have an axe to grind regarding drugs (pretty sure you and I have different opinions on what constitutes a drug) What exactly is 'drug culture'? How does it relate to violence? What I think you have experienced is a jump in televised news... Suddenly, everything is in your living room in 1080p clarity.
Stricter laws of evidence.... well, if a bunch of DB's who were running the system hadn't f**ked a lot of people, we wouldn't be in a position of doubting the DA when they bring forth a case.

Again, I believe you are seeing what the tv editors want you to see.

Sandy Hook doesn't happen, because ther are no guns for the sick kid to steal and use.

Absolutely agree.

Given the fact that gun nuts routinely spout performance, speed and power stats of their favorite weapons, I cannot accept that they would tolerate the diminished capability which assault style weapons offer as hunting weapons, if that were truly their intended purpose. Any true hunter would be more interested in the accuracy of the gun more than the pistol grip rambo-esque BS which is about all these POS guns offer.

Well, I believe your approach fails in steps 1 and 2, after failing the title...
But, to be honest, I think both sides fail item number 1
Certainly neither side has a grip on 2.....
3 is certainly out of reach of the partisan ***** mentality of our elected officials...
Pretty sure 4 and 5 are entirely academic at this point...


BTW, thanks for all the great posts in DD...

__________________
On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

I understand that you don't understand People who like Guns and participate in Gun Sports label you as an Antigun Nut.
Why have you decided that someone like Myself are others are Gun Nuts; implying insanity.

I can speculate that the so called Gun Nuts can spout all sorts of figures and technical data is that they have a complete interest in their Sport.
Not unlike a lot of Sports Fans do in Base Ball or even Mercedes.
I bet there is a bunch of Gun Lover type Forums that are similar in content to this one with the exception of the Subject Matter.

Old Argument does not equal Invalid Argument.

As far as the "Drug Culture" (no news Media) goes I know more about that then I want to. 2 of the People who where My past Friends (Weed and Pill users when I met them) moved on to Heroin.

The Man Mugged an Old Lady for Drug Money and went to Jail for that. Likely for the rest of his Life as He had previous convictions.
The Women became a Prostitute and also went to Jail for that and later was back on the Streets.

One of My X Girl Friends died of a Heart Attack duing here use of Amphetamines.

One of Her Girl Friends that I knew also died in a Similar Fashion.

This is over 35 years ago but I Myself was one the armed Persons at the buying of some Weed. I was young and Dumb for doing that but that was the first and last time and I walked away from the whole mess.

From what you said I gather that you don't believe illegal drug use of any sort causes any Violence, crime or has altered society in any way. Drug users are just a bunch of "Mellow Folks".

It is those evil law abiding Gun Owners with their detailed technical knowledge that are the threat.

You will know if you are part of the "Drug Culture" pretty much the same way you would know if you are part of a "Base Ball" culture. Almost all of your Friends will be Drug uses, they spend a lot of their time doing things to aquire or use Drugs.
You might here a comment like I did when I was in the Army where one of the Guys noticed and commented that that that when the talked about having fun the sentance saterted off with "I was all F***** Up and******".
Ya the only time they had fun what when the were High.
If you can accept the Drug Stuff from above just try to think of the Law Abiding "Gun Nuts" as a Mellow Bunch of Guys and Gals getting high when the Shoot their Guns.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I entirely understand people who like guns, because I am one of them.
What I don't understand is people claiming that they are going to use POS weapons like the bushmaster AR-15 copycat for hunting.... Get real.

I have not intentionally labeled you a gun nut. I do believe that you are clinging to outdated, no longer relevant arguments in presenting your side of the debate.

As for the drug culture, you seem to be lumping casual weed smokers in with speed freaks, junkies and pill heads. That's why I mentioned that our definitions are not the same. I do not consider weed a drug.
Certainly with it's years as an illegal substance, it has been trafficked by real criminals (sounds like you were one of those, as was I, although I never carried any weapons in my efforts of distribution).

Absolutely never claimed this - Illegal drug use causes an enormous amount of crime, and an especially high amount of gun related crime. However, is it the drugs causing the crime, or the fact that they are artificially inflated in price because they are illegal?

Again, never stated anything about legal gun owners being evil in any way.
But their arguments are outdated, narrow minded and often confrontational.
These are not tactics that are going to aid the gun owners in the gun control showdown.

What's a redneck's last words???

Hey Y'all... Watch This!!!

__________________
On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif