Gun Banning perspective... - Page 19 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

t walgamuth · #**271** 12-27-2012, 01:46 PM

I would hate to depend on hitting an intruder in the eye in the middle of the night in the dark.

Of course a perfectly placed 22 is lethal, I believe it may be the weapon of choice when a hit is made in controlled circumstances. Not much recoil or noise and minimal mess.

Txjake · #**272** 12-27-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I would hate to depend on hitting an intruder in the eye in the middle of the night in the dark.

Of course a perfectly placed 22 is lethal, I believe it may be the weapon of choice when a hit is made in controlled circumstances. Not much recoil or noise and minimal mess.

two or three well placed .22s in the groin area (below navel and above balls) will put most people down, esp if its a .22 LRHP

t walgamuth · #**273** 12-27-2012, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

two or three well placed .22s in the groin area (below navel and above balls) will put most people down, esp if its a .22 LRHP

Again, I would not want to count on being able to make three well placed shots in the dark. I feel I'd be lucky to hit the center of the torso under duress.

Heck, I bet a torso shot with my 12 ga will knock a man out even if he has a vest on...possibly stop his heart too.

Txjake · #**274** 12-27-2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Again, I would not want to count on being able to make three well placed shots in the dark. I feel I'd be lucky to hit the center of the torso under duress.

Heck, I bet a torso shot with my 12 ga will knock a man out even if he has a vest on...possibly stop his heart too.

Shooting Bulletproof vest Level IIIA with 12 gauge shotgun!.AVI - YouTube

Diesel911 · #**275** 12-27-2012, 02:55 PM

Here is a rear item; a News Media admitting an a so called Assult Weapon can be uesed for Hunting:

Thu, 27 Dec 2012 14:33:46 -0500
PHOENIX (AP) — Military-style semiautomatic rifles have been used in at least four high-profile shootings in the past year. Bushmaster variations of the weapon have been used two recent attacks, including the Newtown, Conn., school shootings and the Christmas Eve ambush slayings of two New York firefighters. While commonly called the AR-15, Colt and Armalite have been the only companies to make weapons by that specific name. Many other manufacturers, however, now sell similar versions of the rifle largely styled after the military's fully automatic M-16.

A look at the guns, their history and why they're so popular:

HOW WERE THE WEAPONS DEVELOPED?

Armalite first built the so-called AR-15 rifle for military use, but the design was later acquired by Colt, which produced the M-16 automatic weapon for the U.S. military. In the early 1960s, Colt then began marketing the semiautomatic AR-15 rifle largely as the civilian version of the fully-auto M-16. Many other companies have since begun manufacturing and selling AR-15-type rifles, but under different names, including the Remington Arms R-15, Bushmaster X-15 and Carbon 15 and the Smith & Wesson M&P15. The AR-15 has become the commonly-used generic term for all similar rifles.

WHAT ARE THEY USED FOR?

The AR-15-type rifles and .223 caliber ammunition are largely used for hunting small game like coyotes and prairie dogs. They also are extremely popular in shooting competitions due to the light weight of the gun and ammunition and the weapon's accuracy.
HOW DO YOU PURCHASE ONE?

Most military-style semiautomatic rifles were restricted for sale under the 1994 assault weapons ban that expired in 2004. Today, such weapons can be purchased in gun stores across the country.

ARE THERE ANY LIMITATIONS ON SALES?

Licensed dealers must first run a background check on the buyer to determine whether they are eligible under state and federal laws to own the weapon; convicted felons, for instance, cannot legally own firearms. However, private sellers of such rifles are not required to perform background checks. This would include a person selling their private collection to a buyer from their home, as well as private sellers hawking their weapons at any number of dozens of gun shows that occur nationwide every year.

Diesel911 · #**276** 12-27-2012, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

of course back when Dad was talking a 9mm was not readily available. How does the 9mm compare in power to an ordinary 38 cal?

A 9mm has about the ballistics of 38+P Ammo. A hot loaded 38 Special.
But back in the 1960s the Military 9mm semiautomatic Hand Guns and even the lone commercial Semi auto Piston made by Smit&Wesson had to shoot Full Metal Jacket Bullets to be reliable.

The exception to that is that Ruger made a SA Revolver that you could get with a 9mm Cylinder but the Guns Bore was for ad 38/357.
Also semi auto Pistons of the past tended to only function well with a restricted range of Bullet weight.

So while the 38 special has less velocity than an 9mm you have a larger choice of Bullet weights and types of bullets.

The other issue is the Military Type semi auto Pistols had rather heavy trigger pulls making them harder to shot accurately when compared to a Revolver.

So in the past the 38 Sepcial Revolver had a lot going for it.

Also in the past the Crime rate was a good deal lower than now.

Benz Fan · #**277** 12-27-2012, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Here is a rear item; a News Media admitting an a so called Assult Weapon can be uesed for Hunting:

Thu, 27 Dec 2012 14:33:46 -0500
PHOENIX (AP) — Military-style semiautomatic rifles have been used in at least four high-profile shootings in the past year. Bushmaster variations of the weapon have been used two recent attacks, including the Newtown, Conn., school shootings and the Christmas Eve ambush slayings of two New York firefighters. While commonly called the AR-15, Colt and Armalite have been the only companies to make weapons by that specific name. Many other manufacturers, however, now sell similar versions of the rifle largely styled after the military's fully automatic M-16.

A look at the guns, their history and why they're so popular:

HOW WERE THE WEAPONS DEVELOPED?

Armalite first built the so-called AR-15 rifle for military use, but the design was later acquired by Colt, which produced the M-16 automatic weapon for the U.S. military. In the early 1960s, Colt then began marketing the semiautomatic AR-15 rifle largely as the civilian version of the fully-auto M-16. Many other companies have since begun manufacturing and selling AR-15-type rifles, but under different names, including the Remington Arms R-15, Bushmaster X-15 and Carbon 15 and the Smith & Wesson M&P15. The AR-15 has become the commonly-used generic term for all similar rifles.

WHAT ARE THEY USED FOR?

The AR-15-type rifles and .223 caliber ammunition are largely used for hunting small game like coyotes and prairie dogs. They also are extremely popular in shooting competitions due to the light weight of the gun and ammunition and the weapon's accuracy.
HOW DO YOU PURCHASE ONE?

Most military-style semiautomatic rifles were restricted for sale under the 1994 assault weapons ban that expired in 2004. Today, such weapons can be purchased in gun stores across the country.

ARE THERE ANY LIMITATIONS ON SALES?

Licensed dealers must first run a background check on the buyer to determine whether they are eligible under state and federal laws to own the weapon; convicted felons, for instance, cannot legally own firearms. However, private sellers of such rifles are not required to perform background checks. This would include a person selling their private collection to a buyer from their home, as well as private sellers hawking their weapons at any number of dozens of gun shows that occur nationwide every year.

So I can kill a coyote with an "AR-15 type" assault rifle. I can also kill a coyote with a Buick Skylark. Does such an accomplishment diminish the original, intended purpose of either implement?

Jim B. · #**278** 12-27-2012, 03:38 PM

Double tap

Heart & head.

jlomon · #**279** 12-27-2012, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

There are those in this country, perhaps even some on this board, that think a complete ban of all firearms is the way to go after the shootings last week. Even though I don't think it will happen in my lifetime, the country is headed down that road with each new piece of legislation and regulation concerning firearms...give an inch, take a mile.

Anyway, we know from government numbers, that there were 9,484 firearm related homicides in 2008. Source

According to that mentality, banning guns would have saved roughly 9,500 innocent lives in one year.

What if I were to tell you that I know how to save 13,846 lives from violent deaths?? What if there was something else we could ban from society's use that could actually save roughly 47,000 lives each year?? Would you be willing to ban that item in hopes of saving these lives??

Click here to see what I think would help society more than banning firearms...

It's certainly something I could completely do without, and never miss it.

You're comparing "gun homicides" with all alcohol related deaths. This is a bull$**** statistic because the overwhelming majority of alcohol-related deaths are not homicide - there is no intent to kill with alcohol. Either compare gun homicides with alcohol homicides (where the alcohol itself was the murder weapon) or compare all firearm related deaths (including suicide and accidental discharge) to all alcohol-related deaths.

Benz Fan · #**280** 12-27-2012, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlomon

You're comparing "gun homicides" with all alcohol related deaths. This is a bull$**** statistic because the overwhelming majority of alcohol-related deaths are not homicide - there is no intent to kill with alcohol. Either compare gun homicides with alcohol homicides (where the alcohol itself was the murder weapon) or compare all firearm related deaths (including suicide and accidental discharge) to all alcohol-related deaths.

He's just going to continue to run through the NRA playbook until we all become too bored to respond, and then declare victory.

Skippy · #**281** 12-27-2012, 04:15 PM

I don't have a link right now (anybody want to find it for me?), but I recall reading that the average murder victim had two prior felony convictions, and that the majority of murders are bad guys killing other bad guys. Makes that already low number of 9,500 seem even less significant, unless you're a career criminal.

davidmash · #**282** 12-27-2012, 04:41 PM

Are you arguing that the innocents that are shot each year (regardless of the percentage of the 9,500) are acceptable losses for a free society? Serious question, not trying to be snarky.

I have heard the argument here that if you take away the guns they will find another way to accomplish their goal. Perhaps but since we have never taken away the guns I do not see where that theory has been proven in any way. I have heard the argument that we need to enforce the laws that exist. Depending upon where you live that may or may not work. Here in TX there really are not many laws to enforce. I can sell a gun to who ever I want and no one cares.

I have yet to hear any proposal from the NRA et-al that deals with preventing people who should not have access to guns from gaining access to them. I have seen them shoot down nearly every idea offered but I have yet to hear the NRA folks offer a single idea. I do hear the call to arm even more people but it seems the majority of people in the US seem to think that is a bad idea. And as the NRA folks keep telling us, the bad guys will continue to do bad things and enforcing laws will only affect the people who abide by the law. Seems like there is always a convenient argument to not do anything which I think is their plan in the first place.

I am fully aware that we will never achieve a zero homicide rate but I believe if other nations can reduce their homicides to 50% or less of ours we should be capable of doing the same unless there is something inherently violent about the US or we are some how incapable of playing nice with each other.

Benz Fan · #**283** 12-27-2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Are you arguing that the innocents that are shot each year (regardless of the percentage of the 9,500) are acceptable losses for a free society? Serious question, not trying to be snarky.

I have heard the argument here that if you take away the guns they will find another way to accomplish their goal. Perhaps but since we have never taken away the guns I do not see where that theory has been proven in any way. I have heard the argument that we need to enforce the laws that exist. Depending upon where you live that may or may not work. Here in TX there really are not many laws to enforce. I can sell a gun to who ever I want and no one cares.

I have yet to hear any proposal from the NRA et-al that deals with preventing people who should not have access to guns from gaining access to them. I have seen them shoot down nearly every idea offered but I have yet to hear the NRA folks offer a single idea. I do hear the call to arm even more people but it seems the majority of people in the US seem to think that is a bad idea. And as the NRA folks keep telling us, the bad guys will continue to do bad things and enforcing laws will only affect the people who abide by the law. Seems like there is always a convenient argument to not do anything which I think is their plan in the first place.

I am fully aware that we will never achieve a zero homicide rate but I believe if other nations can reduce their homicides to 50% or less of ours we should be capable of doing the same unless there is something inherently violent about the US or we are some how incapable of playing nice with each other.

Ugh. Now you've done it. Prepare to be treated to an array of "relevant" statistics, such as the number of casualties caused by zeppelin explosions each year ("Should we also ban the sale of zeppelins in the United States?").

Benz Fan · #**284** 12-27-2012, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

I don't have a link right now (anybody want to find it for me?), but I recall reading that the average murder victim had two prior felony convictions, and that the majority of murders are bad guys killing other bad guys. Makes that already low number of 9,500 seem even less significant, unless you're a career criminal.

Demonize the victim, making their life and death less important, therefore not symptomatic of a gun problem?

Ara T. · #**285** 12-27-2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I would hate to depend on hitting an intruder in the eye in the middle of the night in the dark.

Of course a perfectly placed 22 is lethal, I believe it may be the weapon of choice when a hit is made in controlled circumstances. Not much recoil or noise and minimal mess.

Uhh.. this is the internet. Everyone is 6'4", has visible abs, and can shoot the wings off a gnat at 500 yards... in the dark