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  #1  
Old 07-02-2013, 02:46 PM
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'Horrifying': Passenger jet dives 1,600 feet to avoid nearby skydiving plane

Some may remember an horrific air collision involving a PSA flight on approach to San Diego and a Cessna 172 in 1978. As a result, the Terminal Collision Avoidance System was developed to help insure that mid air collisions were avoided. The following article shows how the system works in the real world. Notice how the passengers became panicked due to the abrupt dive. The flight crew easily handled the problem while the passengers were overcome with panic. And, as I've stated in earlier posts, it's the panic that will get you killed every time.

Flight Crew = Professionals trained to handle emergencies. Many of them are Ex Military pilots who really can handle just about anything.

Passengers = Panic prone people who will freak out when faced with the slightest out of the ordinary situation.



'Horrifying': Passenger jet dives 1,600 feet to avoid nearby skydiving plane - NBC News.com

Original crash incident which resulted in major changes to air travel.

PSA Flight 182 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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  #2  
Old 07-02-2013, 02:58 PM
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I actually saw the collision of PSA Flight 182 occur.

Was standing on a balcony of the human studies building at San Diego State University, waiting for a World Religions classroom to be opened for my first class of the morning.

Happened to be looking the right way at the right time, saw the flash, then shortly after, the smoke. One of those "I'll never forget where I was" moments.
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  #3  
Old 07-02-2013, 03:02 PM
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The system that resulted from the San Diego accident, although an improvement is virtually obsolete today as compared to the replacement technology, ADSB. ADSB is being phased in and will be fully online in 2020.

There are already MANY pieces of ADSB technology in use, relatively economically, even by General Aviation. It is expected to virtually eliminate such events as you point to. Currently very few GA planes have ADSB OUT, which transmits their location and direction to all nearby aircraft. When all planes have ADSB OUT, the avoidance of mid air collisions will be very nearly at a point of total elimination. Even today, it is making our skies safer and is nowhere near total implementation.

With the requirement over six years away, most aircraft owners, myself included, are waiting for affordable ADSB OUT units. It is generally expected that by 2018 or 2019, most all aircraft in the sky will be so equipped, and by 2020, ALL aircraft flying in controlled airspace will be compliant.
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  #4  
Old 07-02-2013, 03:18 PM
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Looks like the automatic warning systems did their job, and they got away with needing a few new seat cushions as opposed to 150 caskets.
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  #5  
Old 07-02-2013, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMan View Post
Some may remember an horrific air collision involving a PSA flight on approach to San Diego and a Cessna 172 in 1978. As a result, the Terminal Collision Avoidance System was developed to help insure that mid air collisions were avoided. The following article shows how the system works in the real world. Notice how the passengers became panicked due to the abrupt dive. The flight crew easily handled the problem while the passengers were overcome with panic. And, as I've stated in earlier posts, it's the panic that will get you killed every time.

Flight Crew = Professionals trained to handle emergencies. Many of them are Ex Military pilots who really can handle just about anything.

Passengers = Panic prone people who will freak out when faced with the slightest out of the ordinary situation.



'Horrifying': Passenger jet dives 1,600 feet to avoid nearby skydiving plane - NBC News.com

Original crash incident which resulted in major changes to air travel.

PSA Flight 182 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We are talking about a 1,600 foot emergency dive. Did you expect that the uninformed airplane passengers would be thumbing through their copies of Conde Nast during this event?
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  #6  
Old 07-02-2013, 03:33 PM
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A side note about the San Diego accident. That accident was covered in a Smithsonian channel series that documents various aircraft accidents. As I recall, their TV production portrayed the small plane as a Piper Cherokee rather than a Cessna 172. Since the TV series seemed to have lots of errors, I believe your wiki. Both are basically the same size and level of performance so it's a moot point, but you would think Smithsonian channel would be more concerned with accuracy.
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  #7  
Old 07-02-2013, 03:37 PM
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I guess that's why they don't allow the customers to fly the planes, now I know.
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  #8  
Old 07-02-2013, 04:04 PM
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Well:

Airliner near-misses prompt call for changes to 'go-around' rules - U.S. News



As to the current incident, one article I read they took to quoting a little kid who shared his worry they were going to crash into the ground and die. The epitome of poor reporting.

I don't doubt that the passengers were caught off-guard. But 1,600' isn't that much and it was controlled, not like when the elevator jack screw strips.

People have a tendency to be panic prone, and quoting little kids doesn't help that one bit.

My other favorite part was that the maneuver "wasn't explained" until after it happened. Hmmm...as a passenger, I'd far rather the crew be focused on resolving the situation. We can chat about it later, after all, but if we worry about talking beforehand, there may not be any "later."

A little rationality and perspective can go a long way.
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  #9  
Old 07-02-2013, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Can't Know View Post

A little rationality and perspective can go a long way.
You are not getting that from the average person.

That's why the USA is in the current state of affairs that it finds itself. The morons of the world rule the day.

FWIW, the pilots didn't have to do an emergency decent whereby the aircraft is effectively fully unloaded (0g). That's what excites all the idiots.

A push on the yoke that slowly accelerates the aircraft downward over 10 seconds and results in a decent rate of 4000 fpm would achieve the 1600 foot drop in about 30 seconds. More than enough time to avoid a collision.
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  #10  
Old 07-02-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
FWIW, the pilots didn't have to do an emergency decent whereby the aircraft is effectively fully unloaded (0g). That's what excites all the idiots.

A push on the yoke that slowly accelerates the aircraft downward over 10 seconds and results in a decent rate of 4000 fpm would achieve the 1600 foot drop in about 30 seconds. More than enough time to avoid a collision.
Spirit flies some variant of the ScareBus 320 -- those have sidesticks not yokes, and would the envelope protection even allow for a 0g descent?
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  #11  
Old 07-02-2013, 05:45 PM
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NASA has an aircraft that dives quickly and allows for zero G's in the interior. In this way Astronauts can see what zero G feels like for a few seconds at a time.

The aircraft is nicknamed 'The Vomit Comet' since this seems to be the reaction of some folks that try this.
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  #12  
Old 07-02-2013, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
Spirit flies some variant of the ScareBus 320 -- those have sidesticks not yokes, and would the envelope protection even allow for a 0g descent?
Good question...........I'd guess that the software would allow something close to 0g but not quite.

Don't want the people flying around the cabin..............although this has definitely occurred in the past.
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  #13  
Old 07-02-2013, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Pooka View Post
NASA has an aircraft that dives quickly and allows for zero G's in the interior. In this way Astronauts can see what zero G feels like for a few seconds at a time.
That's got to hurt when the acceleration turns back towards the positive side..............
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  #14  
Old 07-02-2013, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
Good question...........I'd guess that the software would allow something close to 0g but not quite.

Don't want the people flying around the cabin..............although this has definitely occurred in the past.
Better have a few people dead from smashing their heads on the ceiling than all passengers dead from hitting a large object. Much prefer Boeing's control philosophy of soft limits that can be overridden with more force on the yoke.
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  #15  
Old 07-02-2013, 06:17 PM
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Back when I used to fly, I always kept my seat belt buckled throughout the flight. If there was turbulence or sudden maneuvers, my head didn't bang into the cabin ceiling.

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