Originally Posted by martureo

I've lost a child. On my birthday. How about you?

I've been unemployed for years, lost my house, and then got fired from the first steady job after a month because the boss' boss was out of town when I was hired and when he came back he decided he didn't like me.

I have been hungry, no food for days. I've had so little money that I've had the electricity turned off, no fuel in the car, no way to get to work on a hot Summer day.

I've had my trials and I will continue to have them. Yet I have no reason to curse God, He has always provided.

Originally Posted by martureo

Nope. God created Satan. Satan rebelled.

Satan brought sin into the world.

Originally Posted by martureo

Only if I believed that.

God created, creation sinned. God is not responsible.

Originally Posted by martureo

Only if I believed that.

God created, creation sinned. God is not responsible.

Originally Posted by davidmash

Like I said, your experiences are trivial in comparison to the 3 million killed by Pol Pot, the people starving to death every day through out the world, the people like Mandela who were imprisoned in labor camps for 27 years, the families who are pulled out of their houses my military troops and summarily executed in the street.....

I have no reason to curse god either. I would be a fool to curse something I do not believe exists.

Originally Posted by greazzer

So the measure of hardships is one-up-manship? OR, finding the most extreme events in recorded history and juxtaposing them against whatever another person says? God is not a god of bargains. I am thinking that should be understood before engaging in the tit-for-tat exchanges. If so, the exchanges will probably make more sense.

Originally Posted by TylerH860

I have some missionaries in my family. When they came to town visiting my grandmother, they would talk about all of the challenges their ministry would face. When asked how they would conquer these obstacles, they would simply say, "The Lord will provide."

Their children would always make sure to stop in Wichita when traveling from their christian college in Canada to their family in Texas with various car issues, no clothes, food, etc. When asked how they would make it to their destination, they would simply say, "The Lord will provide."

That was all hogwash. It was family members and other sympathetic people writing them checks. So unless my grandmother and others became Gods at some point, the only people providing were the ones giving the handouts.

I'll never forget when the missionaries were in town one time staying at my grandmothers, where my 500SL (which used to be hers) was being stored. The patriarch of the bunch told my grandmother, "The lord was calling him to drive that car around the country so he could gain support for his ministry."

Thankfully, even she didn't take that BS.

What is the building appraised at? Unless its very high, why take the risk at no reserve? Iwould hope you are also putting your faith in your building being worth at least what you owe on it. If its appraised at 200k and brings 120k, do you think this was divine intervention? Would you post on the forum as such?

If it brings $10,000, will you put your faith in the lord to come up with the extra?

Originally Posted by davidmash

Not quite. The implication I got from his statement is that all hardships are equal (they are not) and that your god does not give someone more than they can bear (it does). This is not a one up, tit for tat. He is saying that he experienced hardship. I am merely pointing out that there are tens of thousands if not tens of millions who would gladly exchange their hardships for his.

There are days when I think my life sucks. All I h ave to do is think of what my family went through to realize that my life definitely does not suck in the slightest. May not be what I want, but it certainly does not suck.

Originally Posted by greazzer

Well, my bad for misunderstanding your comments. And yes, of course getting a parking ticket is far different than other hardships so to speak. Makes little point in trying to rank them, however, since that parking ticket may be a major issue or major consequence for one and not the other. God certainly knows the boundries of what I or you can bear, and He certainly tests us. What is the value of a test if the questions are too easy. Robert Nozick has a nice short story which I am thinking is what Martureo is trying to communicate. I could certainly be wrong as to what he is trying to communicate also. Personally, all the worldly harships ultimately fade into obsurity as Jesus provided to all of us his Peace. John 14:27. Robert Nozick's "Fiction" appeared in Ploughshares, vol. 6, no. 3, Fall 1980. Copyright © 1980 by Ploughshares. Its a good read since I know you don't care for the Bible. It might be uplifting in a secular sense.

Originally Posted by Dubyagee

God will provide CLK.

Don't know how the others missed the " no arguing " plea. Not secure enough to let one thread alone.

Originally Posted by TylerH860

I don't see where we are arguing. I don't know if its insecurity, but Christians certainly don't like it when people ask questions about their faith.

Like I said, I don't see how a 16 year old girl can survive a plane crash only to get run over and killed by an emergency vehicle responding to the scene. If that is a part of his plan, that is one twisted, dark way to carry it out.

In the same token I don't understand why God would want to help CLK get more than what he owes for the building. I asked some pretty simple questions regarding to the value of the building which he has yet to answer.

I wasn't looking for an argument, but understand how hard it is for someone of faith to explain to someone who does not and questions it without taking offense.

Originally Posted by TylerH860

I don't see where we are arguing. I don't know if its insecurity, but Christians certainly don't like it when people ask questions about their faith.

Like I said, I don't see how a 16 year old girl can survive a plane crash only to get run over and killed by an emergency vehicle responding to the scene. If that is a part of his plan, that is one twisted, dark way to carry it out.

In the same token I don't understand why God would want to help CLK get more than what he owes for the building. I asked some pretty simple questions regarding to the value of the building which he has yet to answer.

I wasn't looking for an argument, but understand how hard it is for someone of faith to explain to someone who does not and questions it without taking offense.

Originally Posted by greazzer

So the measure of hardships is one-up-manship? OR, finding the most extreme events in recorded history and juxtaposing them against whatever another person says? God is not a god of bargains. I am thinking that should be understood before engaging in the tit-for-tat exchanges. If so, the exchanges will probably make more sense.

Originally Posted by TylerH860

I don't see where we are arguing. I don't know if its insecurity, but Christians certainly don't like it when people ask questions about their faith.

Like I said, I don't see how a 16 year old girl can survive a plane crash only to get run over and killed by an emergency vehicle responding to the scene. If that is a part of his plan, that is one twisted, dark way to carry it out.

In the same token I don't understand why God would want to help CLK get more than what he owes for the building. I asked some pretty simple questions regarding to the value of the building which he has yet to answer.

I wasn't looking for an argument, but understand how hard it is for someone of faith to explain to someone who does not and questions it without taking offense.

Originally Posted by elchivito

Really? CLK man himself has told us how he promised god he'd quit that evil likker if only he'd save his wife. God apparently took the deal. The bible is full of bargains with god. Making deals with god is an ancient Hebrew tradition, and many Catholics practice it to this day. I have in my side yard an elaborate capilla - a little bitty chapel adorned with wrought iron, erected generations ago by a great grandparent as promised payment to the Blessed Virgin for saving a child's life. Mexican roadsides are dotted with such payments for "answered prayers."

Hey CLK, if you can find one in your neck of the woods, go get a plastic dashboard style statue of St. Joseph. It has to be St. Joseph. In the dirt outside your building dig a hole. Bury the statue upside down facing the building. Then pray to St. Joe to help you sell your property. No matter you're not a Cat-lick. St. Joe doesn't care. As my great uncle the Archbishop used to say, "It couldn't hurt".