Frankly I agree- but on what needs to be adapted, changed or left alone we differ.Perhaps he was suspicious of GZ- but of what? Did he think GZ was going to B&E one of the homes? Was TM a watch person who was protecting his 'hood? The only thing TM would reasonably be suspicious of is that GZ might be looking to assault him. But at that point there was no confrontation- and no ground to stand. Someone far away cannot fall under SYG because they are not close enough to assault you and so you cannot assault them first, unless you see them pointing a weapon at you.
All the evidence overwhelmingly points towards TM ambushing GZ. Do you disagree or are you now headed into the hypothetical that if the evidence did not point to that we should look into changing the law?
No ground to stand as I already said. Who says GZ was in over his head? He was trained by a civilian police and nominated by the head of the HOA for this position. He had taken MMA classes and perhaps aspired to be a LEO.

I think you assume he was looking for a confrontation- which is an unproven assumption.

I know you hate it when I say this, but I don't know enough about the evidence to say one way or the other. For one thing, we have not heard from the defendant. At some point, Zimmerman will lose his right to claim the Fifth and will have to testify under oath. The discovery process in that case might give a better idea of what happened.Hard to say one way or the other without knowing all the facts. Even if your version describes what happened in this case, it is not hard to see a similar scenario involving a scared kid being followed by a creepy *** cracker deciding to take matters into his own hands. That point might not have much to do with stand-your-ground, but it does relate to why armed neighborhood watchmen should not follow "suspects."Again, you know more about it than I do, but I kind of get the sense that he did exactly what he was trained not to do.I assume that he wanted to follow the guy to make sure he didn't get away. I doubt that he wanted the sort of confrontation he got.

Not if it self defense.

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Assault and Battery is an offense.

Sounds as if you are not aware that there was testimony showing that TM was grounding and pounding Z. Of course you can always discount such testimony if it does not support your opinion.

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And there was no testimony about what happened before that. We also learned in the trial, from GZ's former MMA trainer, that GZ had minimal fighting prowess. Not surprising that he was getting whooped by a 17 year old athlete.

A fool can start a fight and then lose it. A fool can also bring a gun to fist fight.

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Who is "we"? "We" is the public who is represented by the LEO. The LEO ( and other LEO's after that- including the FBI) heard from the defendant, and interviewed him over hours and hours and again at the incident scene. They do this for a living. They and the DA concluded that there should not any charges pressed against GZ. I'll trust their version and the evidence presented at the trial before I decide I should believe otherwise.
If TM "took matters into his own hands" he'd be guilty of A&B. Can you imagine a white kid followed by a creepy a** n****r black kid who "took matters into his own hands"??? 'nuf said here.
Should armed NH watch folks follow suspicious folks in the 'hood? Depends on the circumstances. Generally not IMHO, but I also don't believe you can make an enforceable law that says you cannot. I doubt he wanted the sort of confrontation he got- and neither did TM- but I still give GZ props to be the guy who volunteered to help his community stop criminals from preying on members.

I agree with all of this except who lost the fight. However none of this says SYG should be repealed nor does it say civil rights were abused; both of these are the major issues for people marching, occupying offices and other protests. The marches and protests have little to no common ground with the case. They are misplaced and shows the stupidity people marching and cunning of the black leaders ability to con it's followers.

I am beginning to find all this hand wringing & teeth knashing humorous.... GZ found NOT GUILTY....let it go.... world is falling around us, major cities in financial ruin, and we are debating this ****??? IF you took a side and that side was TM, your side LOST. get over it, move on with your life...

You, me, and everybody else who may have opinions about the case.If Martin's family files a civil action against Zimmerman, which seems likely, they will probably have no shortage of competent attorneys and financial resources to drill down on Zimmerman's story. If Florida's procedures are anything like Virginia's, they will have tools available to them that were not available to law enforcement.Maybe. That depends on whether he acted reasonably. And what difference does it make? Even if Martin made a bad judgment about whether to go after Zimmerman, well, that's what 17-year-olds do. They make bad judgments. That is one reason why armed neighborhood watchmen should not stalk 17-year-olds.Yes I can imagine that. I just can't connect it to anything we've been saying here.I agree with all of that.

TM's side still has a civil claim.

And stand-your-ground might also lose steam after this sorry case, even if Zimmerman did not rely on that law. You and MTU seem to think that since the Zimmerman case might not have been decided based on stand-your-ground, then the demonstrators should shut up. I don't see the connection. The demonstrators don't have to sit and wait until a stand-your-ground tragedy occurs before they exercise their First Amendment rights.

Jake, lib's uphold the law until a decision comes along they don't agree with.

Not if it is self defense.

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- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Unproven, no witnesses self defense.

He was beating Z into the ground. Broke his nose and kept hitting.

The best thing to learn from this is to never assume the guy your whipping is unarmed or legally restrained from using a weapon.

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I heard on the radio that Indiana now has SYG law.

I am not happy about that.

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