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  #241  
Old 04-15-2014, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by elchivito View Post
It isn't state land Dudesky. Did you read the quote I copied from the Nevada constitution?

How exactly do you figure it's state land? I'll post the copy again. I'd prefer a reasoned answer. Take your time....

Third. That the people inhabiting said territory do agree and declare, that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition of the United States; and that lands belonging to citizens of the United States, residing without the said state, shall never be taxed higher than the land belonging to the residents thereof; and that no taxes shall be imposed by said state on lands or property therein belonging to, or which may hereafter be purchased by, the United States, unless otherwise provided by the congress of the United States." Ordinance, Nevada Constitution - Ballotpedia
Back in the day, El......how they feel about Uncle Sam owning their backyard now?
Why is it US owns 78% of Nevada? Is that what 'we' own? For what?

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  #242  
Old 04-15-2014, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Dudesky View Post
You have to equate it as so? Looks like accurate reporting to me.

Maybe they are reporting in a fair and balanced way and not ending comment on the issue like so many on the progressive side do.
Figured you would like the breitbart.com link...
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  #243  
Old 04-15-2014, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Hahaha!!

Right of conquest preempts all other claims.
Fair enough. US conquest over Mexico resulting in the Mexico Cession?
I think that was the last 'conquest' and predating the Bundy's claim of 'preemptive' right.
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  #244  
Old 04-15-2014, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cmbdiesel View Post
Figured you would like the breitbart.com link...
You got class

LOL....good one.

Last edited by Dudesky; 04-15-2014 at 08:31 PM. Reason: LOL
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  #245  
Old 04-15-2014, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Hahaha!!

Right of conquest preempts all other claims.
Tell that to the Palestinians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudesky View Post
Back in the day, El......how they feel about Uncle Sam owning their backyard now?
Why is it US owns 78% of Nevada? Is that what 'we' own? For what?
I have no idea how that managed to go through. It was a steaming load at the time and it still is. I read a year or so ago one of my congresscritters got a bill through turning over a good sized chunk of BLM land to Lyon County, NV. It's a step in the right direction, but we need a lot more. If the land Bundy was using were privately held, this whole chingadera wouldn't be happening.
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  #246  
Old 04-15-2014, 09:28 PM
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I think we've had massive bipartisan Thread Swoon......
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  #247  
Old 04-15-2014, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
I sure am!

Sometimes we argue in favor of civil disobedience and sometimes against. I have yet to see any consistency from anybody on this forum.

Have you?
I don't believe I have ever argued in favor of civil disobedience in that you should be spared any and all events happening. I agree you can do it like the Chinese guy in Tiananmen Square but when he got squished, oh well.
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  #248  
Old 04-15-2014, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudesky View Post
Back in the day, El......how they feel about Uncle Sam owning their backyard now?
Why is it US owns 78% of Nevada? Is that what 'we' own? For what?
Back in what day? Pre-statehood? In that case you'd have to give it back to the Spanish Vaqueros, who'd have to give it back to the indigenous inhabitants. It's an absurd rationale.

The answer to your question "why is it US owns 78% of Nevada?" is found in the copy paste I showed you from the Nevada constitution. Most western states have a similar passage in their own constitutions. It was part of the price of statehood. My own state is about 10% private property, the rest is federal one way or the other. I'm not saying I like it or it's "right", it just IS. The "sovereign citizen" argument is bullshlt. Your cowboy hero is a welfare scammer. I thought you didn't like moochers; you know, those bums waiting for their "free stuff". Cliven Bundy is a perfect example of them.
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  #249  
Old 04-16-2014, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
I don't believe I have ever argued in favor of civil disobedience in that you should be spared any and all events happening. I agree you can do it like the Chinese guy in Tiananmen Square but when he got squished, oh well.
I never, ever suggested that.

I merely propose that there are times and circumstances when most of us could imagine conducting civil disobedience.

It's a small step from peaceful to violent.

And another from violent resistance to active revolution.

It happens awfully quickly sometimes. Take deposing the Czar. It took generations of abuse to reach the tipping point but once there, a year or so to execute sweeping revolution.

And it doesn't matter how big the standing army and police maybe. Look at the fall of the Berlin Wall and utter collapse of the USSR and Warsaw Pact. 10 years or even 5 years before, that event was utterly unpredictable.

It will happen in that fashion in the USA when the collapse comes. Men and women who presently could not imagine themselves taking-up arms against their fellow citizens will mow-down the other side. Remember that the bloodiest war we have fought since our founding was the War Between the States. A conflict nobody wanted.
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  #250  
Old 04-16-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by elchivito View Post
Back in what day? Pre-statehood? In that case you'd have to give it back to the Spanish Vaqueros, who'd have to give it back to the indigenous inhabitants. It's an absurd rationale.

The answer to your question "why is it US owns 78% of Nevada?" is found in the copy paste I showed you from the Nevada constitution. Most western states have a similar passage in their own constitutions. It was part of the price of statehood. My own state is about 10% private property, the rest is federal one way or the other. I'm not saying I like it or it's "right", it just IS. The "sovereign citizen" argument is bullshlt. Your cowboy hero is a welfare scammer. I thought you didn't like moochers; you know, those bums waiting for their "free stuff". Cliven Bundy is a perfect example of them.
This Bundy is not my hero....fed's own this debacle as much as Bundy. Fed's been puling this water rights crap all over the west.

You hep to environmental justice?

Don't worry El, they going give it all back to Mehico ala La Raza....
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  #251  
Old 04-16-2014, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
I don't believe I have ever argued in favor of civil disobedience in that you should be spared any and all events happening. I agree you can do it like the Chinese guy in Tiananmen Square but when he got squished, oh well.
No one got squished in Tiananmen Square.
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  #252  
Old 04-16-2014, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dudesky View Post
This Bundy is not my hero....fed's own this debacle as much as Bundy. Fed's been puling this water rights crap all over the west.

You hep to environmental justice?

Don't worry El, they going give it all back to Mehico ala La Raza....
Let me ask this. Had he paid his dues, would we be talking about this subject now?

Had he challenged it in court when he was given the invitations, would we be talking about this now?

Or how about not grazing on what you didn't pay for till it is settled?


You go punch someone in the face and he beats your ass, regardless of how severe a beating you get, you started it. You can't drag anything else into the fight.
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  #253  
Old 04-16-2014, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by aklim View Post
Let me ask this. Had he paid his dues, would we be talking about this subject now?

Had he challenged it in court when he was given the invitations, would we be talking about this now?

Or how about not grazing on what you didn't pay for till it is settled?


You go punch someone in the face and he beats your ass, regardless of how severe a beating you get, you started it. You can't drag anything else into the fight.
Another guy been paying his dues:

Estate of E. Wayne Hage v. United States : SCOTUSblog

Quote:
In an historic 104-page ruling, Chief Judge Robert C. Jones of the Federal District Court of Nevada has struck a major blow for property rights and, at the same time, has smacked down federal agencies that have been riding roughshod over Western ranchers and property owners. The long-awaited ruling, which had been expected before the end of last year, was finally issued at the end of May. The court case, U.S. v. Hage, has been keenly watched by legal analysts and constitutional scholars — but has been completely ignored by the major media.
Federal Judge Rules for Property Rights, Smacks Down Abusive Feds

This guy won....US is appealing....told him "not to worry, because WE always win in the 9th circuit court of appeals"....

No agenda here....
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  #254  
Old 04-16-2014, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Dudesky View Post
No one got squished in Tiananmen Square.
You're probably right.

From the Wiki:
Official figures

  • Some of the early estimates were based on reports of a casualty figure of 2,600 from the Chinese Red Cross, which was quickly retracted.
  • On June 6, State Council spokesperson Yuan Mu claimed that preliminary tallies by the government showed that about 300 civilians and soldiers died, including 23 students from universities in Beijing, along with a number of people he described as "ruffians".[135] Some 5,000 soldiers and police along with 2,000 civilians were wounded.
  • On June 19, Beijing Party Secretary Li Ximing reported to the Politburo that the government's confirmed death toll was 241, including 218 civilians (including 36 students), 10 PLA soldiers and 13 People's Armed Police, along with 7,000 wounded.[143][144]
  • On July 1, Chen Xitong, then Beijing mayor, reported that about 200 civilians and several dozen soldiers died.[145][146]


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  #255  
Old 04-16-2014, 11:47 AM
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If they are using the $1m he supposedly owes as justification, when will armed Marshals go after Charley Rangle ? He supposedly owes over$2m.

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