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BAVBMW 04-10-2014 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI (Post 3314542)
Cows?

And I said nothing, for I was not a rancher.

MV

jplinville 04-10-2014 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy (Post 3314539)
Couple questions in my mind. 1. Why didn't they try to evict the herd in 1994 when the grazing permit was revoked? 2. What are they going to do with the cattle they round up?

I don't know why BLM doesn't just allow its grazing users to simply buy their allotments and put the land in private hands. There's no good reason I can think of for the .gov to own so much land.

I can only answer #2...sell at auction to satisfy debt.

cmbdiesel 04-10-2014 07:11 PM

I do find it kind of humorous that some people hold the belief that there is some inherent right to continue doing something, just because they have been doing it all their lives....

John Galt 04-10-2014 07:24 PM

Quote:

Ammon Bundy, the son of besieged Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, told Infowars reporter David Knight today around 20 cowboys went on land claimed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and retrieved cattle.

“We gathered about 30 head,” said Bundy. “We did have a small confrontation with them, but they didn’t have the forces to do a whole lot. They couldn’t mobilize fast enough and we were able to gather those cattle and get them to the ranch.”

Cliven Bundy and his family are currently engaged in a standoff with the BLM over a long standing refusal to acknowledge a 1993 modification to grazing rights on land that Bundy asserts has been in his family since 1870. On Saturday, hundreds of federal officials, aided by helicopters, low flying aircraft and hired cowboys, began rounding up Bundy’s cattle in northeastern Clark County.

Bundy’s dispute with the feds escalated yesterday when several of his supporters were assaulted by BLM officials. The BLM is currently rounding up Bundy’s cattle in order to enforce a regulation in order to protect an endangered desert tortoise after 600,000 acres of public land was reclassified as federal property.
» 20 Cowboys Break Fed Blockade in Nevada, Retrieve Cattle

elchivito 04-10-2014 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudesky (Post 3314541)
Saw a very similar issue where gov't has been revoking water and land use rights that have been in place for over a century. One family won their case only to be told by the gov;t, we;ll see you in the 9th court, where we always win.

BTW, it was on Fox and must have been BS..."Enemies of the State"

Bring on the attacks.....

Not similar at all. Land and water rights are not grazing leases, that's all he appears to have had. Grazing leases are revocable anytime the fed deems it necessary. Best way to keep them "grandfathered" is to pay the rent, and if the feds tell you you can only have 150 cows on your allotment, you better not have 151.
My great grandparents grazed cattle on my allotment before AZ became a state. When it did, 80% of the state became federal land, including that graze. They started paying fees. The only reason I still do it is there are some historic pens and structures on the property that they built.
Grazing fees are cheap. Welfare ranchers whine about them all the time, threatening dire consequences for the price of beef when their fees went to $16.20 per cow and calf unit. That's a buck thirty five per animal unit month or AUM.
I'm not a foaming at the mouth type who thinks grazing is categorically bad for range land. We practice Allan Savory's methods with the sheep, and the renters who have cattle on my allotment do the same, have for years.
At the same time, I have little sympathy for so called independent ranchers who are in reality conducting private business on public land largely at public expense with precious little oversight.

jplinville 04-11-2014 06:09 AM

Here's an interesting take on this. Granted, it's going to take more research to know for sure, but it seems quite plausible.

BLM fracking racket exposed! Armed siege and cattle theft from Bundy ranch really about fracking leases

Txjake 04-11-2014 09:01 AM

‘Expect To See A Band Of Soldiers’: Militia Members Arrive At Nevada Ranch « CBS Las Vegas

Txjake 04-11-2014 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville (Post 3314722)
Here's an interesting take on this. Granted, it's going to take more research to know for sure, but it seems quite plausible.

BLM fracking racket exposed! Armed siege and cattle theft from Bundy ranch really about fracking leases

Follow the money is always a good idea.

Medmech 04-11-2014 09:17 AM

Posse comatatis , call him whatever you want but using armed forces against American citizens for non violent violations is not only wrong it's against the law. Since this guy is a Mormon rancher he's a dead man, if he were an atheist hippie the feds would not give a poop. This is the same administration that raised hell about targeting US citizens in Yemen that we're conspiring to launch terrorist attacks against the US of A.

Absolute BS in my opinion.

cmbdiesel 04-11-2014 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville (Post 3314722)
Here's an interesting take on this. Granted, it's going to take more research to know for sure, but it seems quite plausible.

BLM fracking racket exposed! Armed siege and cattle theft from Bundy ranch really about fracking leases

Not a big fan of BLM by any means, but is it not within their purview to change the land use from grazing to oil exploration?

spdrun 04-11-2014 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel (Post 3314810)
Not a big fan of BLM by any means, but is it not within their purview to change the land use from grazing to oil exploration?

You're talking about quite a bit of land. Until oil is definitively found, exploration operations can coexist with grazing. What's technically legal doesn't make it morally right. If it's about oil, I hope it does turn into a media circus.

cmbdiesel 04-11-2014 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medmech (Post 3314765)
Posse comatatis , call him whatever you want but using armed forces against American citizens for non violent violations is not only wrong it's against the law. Since this guy is a Mormon rancher he's a dead man, if he were an atheist hippie the feds would not give a poop. This is the same administration that raised hell about targeting US citizens in Yemen that we're conspiring to launch terrorist attacks against the US of A.

Absolute BS in my opinion.

Since he has neglected to pay his grazing fees, he has no legal recourse.

Now that he has accepted help from armed militias, they stand a much better chance of ending up dead.
Dead and stupid... they kind of go together.....

At this point, I have seen no compelling evidence that BLM has done anything worse than being a little heavy handed with a db who has flaunted his unwillingness to play by the rules.

cmbdiesel 04-11-2014 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun (Post 3314816)
You're talking about quite a bit of land. Until oil is definitively found, exploration operations can coexist with grazing. What's technically legal doesn't make it morally right. If it's about oil, I hope it does turn into a media circus.

Morally right??? WTF do morals have to do with grazing?

BLM oversees the land.
Guy has not paid his grazing fees, yet continues to graze there.
Seems pretty simple to me, regardless of whatever nefarious purpose the .gov has in mind for that area.

Personally, I think the guy is a douche for grazing on public land without a permit and without paying the grazing fees.
He's lucky he hasn't been tossed in the hoosegow already.

spdrun 04-11-2014 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel (Post 3314822)
Morally right??? WTF do morals have to do with grazing?

BLM oversees the land.
Guy has not paid his grazing fees, yet continues to graze there.
Seems pretty simple to me, regardless of whatever nefarious purpose the .gov has in mind for that area.

Personally, I think the guy is a douche for grazing on public land without a permit and without paying the grazing fees.
He's lucky he hasn't been tossed in the hoosegow already.

Do you know the history of the fees? Were they suddenly raised to exorbitant levels, perhaps? Do the fees vary by area, or are they all as cheap as El Chivito says.

For all we know, he has a right to be livid here.

cmbdiesel 04-11-2014 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdrun (Post 3314823)
Do you know the history of the fees? Were they suddenly raised to exorbitant levels, perhaps? Do the fees vary by area, or are they all as cheap as El Chivito says.

For all we know, he has a right to be livid here.

His right to be livid expired 20 years ago....

I completely disagree with him that he has 'preemptive rights' to graze there.


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