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-   -   Another Ruby Ridge/Waco event brewing (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/off-topic-discussion/353348-another-ruby-ridge-waco-event-brewing.html)

Air&Road 04-14-2014 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash (Post 3315939)
What happened to "Law and Order Larry'? The one who has argued countless times that the law has to be followed? The one who has argued that if you want to challenge the law there are avenues that one must pursue? This guy is a criminal by your standard. Should he not be treated as one?
If what I've Read is true he's no criminal.

Txjake 04-14-2014 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAVBMW (Post 3316018)
If it is true that he/his family bought the land, or the rights to the land, long before the BLM existed and/or managed land, what rights would he have? Is it possible to refuse "management" by the government?

Let's just take her story at face value for a moment, what would everyone's thoughts on the BLM be then?

MV
The BLM is as pro rancher as the BOIA is pro native American.....:(

cmbdiesel 04-14-2014 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAVBMW (Post 3316018)
If it is true that he/his family bought the land, or the rights to the land, long before the BLM existed and/or managed land, what rights would he have? Is it possible to refuse "management" by the government?

Let's just take her story at face value for a moment, what would everyone's thoughts on the BLM be then?

MV
Rather than take the story at face value, let's see the documents in support of their position first. Ought to be easy enough to show a paper trail of these claims...
Or are we going to get a 'We did things with a handshake back then' story...

MTI 04-14-2014 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAVBMW (Post 3316018)
If it is true that he/his family bought the land, or the rights to the land, long before the BLM existed and/or managed land, what rights would he have? Is it possible to refuse "management" by the government?

Let's just take her story at face value for a moment, what would everyone's thoughts on the BLM be then?

MV
If title to land were the trump card, it would have been easily played in court, no? Bundy has a melon farm, but all accounts state that the grazing is occurring on public lands . . so, if has title to 750,000 acres, it's time to pony it up.

davidmash 04-14-2014 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3316019)
If what I've Read is true he's no criminal.
The law is the law Larry.

Quote:
Nope, in my case, I want to see a society that respects the rule of law and underestand the difference between right and wrong.
I really like this one.

Botnst 04-14-2014 03:23 PM
Forgetting (if possible) this current event….

Under what circumstances would one argue that taking-up arms against the government (any government) is a reasonable course?

aklim 04-14-2014 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3316019)
If what I've Read is true he's no criminal.
And YOU are "the decider"? Correct me if I am wrong but I thought you believe in the court system to decide disputes? If so, are you coming out with the idea that your failure to argue your case or inability to win the case is meaningful?

cmbdiesel 04-14-2014 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst (Post 3316031)
Forgetting (if possible) this current event….

Under what circumstances would one argue that taking-up arms against the government (any government) is a reasonable course?
Well, maybe if a baker refused to make a cake...
Wait, I know, when the IRS takes too long to allow tax-free status...
Both of those ought to merit armed uprising.

I would like to say that there has never been a good enough reason to take up arms against our government.
For one thing, you'll lose every time.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/open-discussion/353369-navy-so-awsome.html

aklim 04-14-2014 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst (Post 3316031)
Forgetting (if possible) this current event….

Under what circumstances would one argue that taking-up arms against the government (any government) is a reasonable course?
We talking about a legitimate government that was legally elected or a government put in place by illegal means?

Air&Road 04-14-2014 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim (Post 3316037)
And YOU are "the decider"? Correct me if I am wrong but I thought you believe in the court system to decide disputes? If so, are you coming out with the idea that your failure to argue your case or inability to win the case is meaningful?
And where did I say that the court will not decide? I SAID,
FROM WHAT IVE READ, he has not broken the law. If he broke the law find a tree a rope and call me. I'll personally slap the horse on the ass.

Botnst 04-14-2014 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmbdiesel (Post 3316042)
Well, maybe if a baker refused to make a cake...
Wait, I know, when the IRS takes too long to allow tax-free status...
Both of those ought to merit armed uprising.

I would like to say that there has never been a good enough reason to take up arms against our government.
For one thing, you'll lose every time.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/open-discussion/353369-navy-so-awsome.html
It happened in 1776 and 1861. Bit of a dust-up both times.

The way we know which is justified is by who writes the history.

davidmash 04-14-2014 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3316046)
And where did I say that the court will not decide? I SAID,
FROM WHAT IVE READ, he has not broken the law. If he broke the law find a tree a rope and call me. I'll personally slap the horse on the ass.
Pretty sure not paying taxes is against the law.

aklim 04-14-2014 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road (Post 3316046)
And where did I say that the court will not decide? I SAID,
FROM WHAT IVE READ, he has not broken the law. If he broke the law find a tree a rope and call me. I'll personally slap the horse on the ass.
I'm pretty sure grazing rent free by refusing to pay isn't legal.

MTI 04-14-2014 03:58 PM
Not broken the law? Then why would a US Federal Court have issued an order to cease and desist the grazing? I guess following the court's order was "optional?"

Part of the Order granting permanent injunction against Mr. Bundy:

Nor is there a legitimate dispute that Bundy has grazed his cattle on the New Trespass Lands without federal authorization. The United States has submitted Bundy’s deposition excerpts indicating that Bundy has grazed livestock on the New Trespass Lands.

Bundy principally opposes the United States’ motion for summary judgment on the ground that this court lacks jurisdiction because the United States does not own the public lands in question. As this court previously ruled in United States v. Bundy, Case No. CV-S-98-531-JBR (RJJ) (D. Nev. Nov. 4, 1998), “the public lands in Nevada are the property of the United States because the United States has held title to those public lands since 1848, when Mexico ceded the land to the United States. CV-S-98-531 at 8 (citing United States v. Gardner, 107 F.3d 1314, 1318 (9th Cir. 1997))

Bundy [also contends] the observed cattle bearing his brand may not in fact be his own.

Finally, the public interest is served by the enforcement of Congress’ mandate for management of the public rangelands, and by having federal laws and regulations applied to all citizens equally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:United_States_v_Bundy_Court_Order_July_2013.pdf&page=3

The cattle seized were branded with Mr. Bundy's brand. :D

Air&Road 04-14-2014 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim (Post 3316045)
We talking about a legitimate government that was legally elected or a government put in place by illegal means?
We'll I guess you'll have to evaluate whether or not our elections were legitimate or not.


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